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Distributing Mac software is increasing my cortisol levels

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Re: Distributing Mac software is increasing my cortisol levels

#21

Post by stephc_int13 »

I am not entirely against the whole notarization thing.

If it is good for the end-user, it is usually also good for the ecosystem a a whole, trust is valuable.

But ffs, they are rich enough to make this a lot less painful and hostile for developers.

And this is not a new thing, I used to develop games for iOS, from the very beginning, and while the process somewhat simplified over time, it was a huge cortisol inducing process, not to mention the regular forced OS+SDK updates where the procedures changes almost every time and could fail in not-so-evident ways.

Re: Distributing Mac software is increasing my cortisol levels

#22

Post by TrajansRow »

So, Linux gets a free pass for requiring chmod +x to run his tool, but needing to run xattr on MacOS is somehow worthy of an entire blog post to complain about it?

Serious question - Is it really true that Windows 11 will run an untrusted .exe without a warning?

Re: Distributing Mac software is increasing my cortisol levels

#23

Post by Wowfunhappy »

novafunc wrote: post #20
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #5

Any user who does not like Gatekeeper can turn it off on their machine in ten seconds by running this in a Terminal: sudo spctl —-master-disable People will say, no, that’s too big a hammer, it’s not safe… but then, like, what do you actually want? Either you keep Gatekeeper because you like the friction it introduces, or you don’t like that friction and you should go turn it off. Pick one, you obviously can’t have b…

Rather than just having the options "Done" and "Move to Bin", give me an option to actually run it without having to manually go into System Settings each and every time without disabling security features? The added friction feels more like a way to force developers to pay Apple an annual fee for distributing rather than for my safety. Not saying it doesn't help with safety, just that it's more weighed to the former…

> without disabling security features?

With Gatekeeper turned off, you’ll still get a warning on first launch which you can easily click through. (Unless Apple changed something in the last few versions—let me know if that’s the case—but it would be out of character for them to remove a warning...)

The “security feature” you don’t want to disable is precisely the thing you are complaining about, so I don’t understand why you’d keep it around.

> The added friction feels more like a way to force developers to pay Apple an annual fee for distributing rather than for my safety.

I don’t imagine Apple makes a substantial amount of money from $99/year developer subscriptions. The App Store is another story of course.

Re: Distributing Mac software is increasing my cortisol levels

#24

Post by plufz »

novafunc wrote: post #20
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #5

Any user who does not like Gatekeeper can turn it off on their machine in ten seconds by running this in a Terminal: sudo spctl —-master-disable People will say, no, that’s too big a hammer, it’s not safe… but then, like, what do you actually want? Either you keep Gatekeeper because you like the friction it introduces, or you don’t like that friction and you should go turn it off. Pick one, you obviously can’t have b…

Rather than just having the options "Done" and "Move to Bin", give me an option to actually run it without having to manually go into System Settings each and every time without disabling security features? The added friction feels more like a way to force developers to pay Apple an annual fee for distributing rather than for my safety. Not saying it doesn't help with safety, just that it's more weighed to the former…

I also have things I want to change in gatekeeper, but that feature is not one of them. Just gut feeling but I would say 110% of all users, would just click ”start” on every unsigned app if it was that easy.

Re: Distributing Mac software is increasing my cortisol levels

#25

Post by plufz »

puppycodes wrote: post #18
petra303 wrote: post #14

> I can use SmartID to verify my ID (and age) in about 20 seconds when buying an energy drink at the local grocery store Where do you have to show ID for that??

another feature of UK dystopia

You and I have very different ideas of dystopia.

Re: Distributing Mac software is increasing my cortisol levels

#26

Post by MrGilbert »

TrajansRow wrote: post #22

So, Linux gets a free pass for requiring chmod +x to run his tool, but needing to run xattr on MacOS is somehow worthy of an entire blog post to complain about it? Serious question - Is it really true that Windows 11 will run an untrusted .exe without a warning?

You can configure it in a way that it won't allow you to run it at all, but out of the box, you will receive a message which forces you through three clicks. Enough to scare off people with no deep knowledge.

And yes, you can turn all of that off.

Re: Distributing Mac software is increasing my cortisol levels

#27

Post by joenot443 »

petra303 wrote: post #14

> I can use SmartID to verify my ID (and age) in about 20 seconds when buying an energy drink at the local grocery store Where do you have to show ID for that??

I was also taken aback by this, but apparently it's a real trend.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_restrictions_on_energy_dri...

Re: Distributing Mac software is increasing my cortisol levels

#28

Post by ryandrake »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #5

Any user who does not like Gatekeeper can turn it off on their machine in ten seconds by running this in a Terminal: sudo spctl —-master-disable People will say, no, that’s too big a hammer, it’s not safe… but then, like, what do you actually want? Either you keep Gatekeeper because you like the friction it introduces, or you don’t like that friction and you should go turn it off. Pick one, you obviously can’t have b…

10 seconds or 30 seconds, it's just too much friction to ask end users to do. I actually develop on a Mac, but I've written off Apple as a target system for hobby/open source projects. Between quarantine, code signing, and notarizing (which requires $99 a year), it's just not worth it. Good for Apple users if they like this shit--I'm just not going to bother with distributing to the platform anymore.

macOS is slowly getting like Windows, where, on a fresh install you have to go through and turn off all sorts of unwanted software just to have a sane environment where you, the user, are actually controlling your computer.

Re: Distributing Mac software is increasing my cortisol levels

#29

Post by drcongo »

I went through this recently. Got as far as verifying my identity, which Apple happily accepted as verified from my UK driving license. Unfortunately, they then automatically set my first and last name from that identity verification step, and some how managed to use a section of my driving license number as my surname - a string of random uppercase letters and numbers - and it's impossible to edit it. So fuck them, that's $99 they've lost.
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