Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The FCC wants your ID before you get a phone number

reclaimthenet.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 112 posts

Re: The FCC wants your ID before you get a phone number

#61

Post by medvidek »

KevinMS wrote: post #6

I can understand the motivation. I've had the same number since the 90's and never once got a spam call until I was in the hospital last year and since then I've been getting 2-3 a day every day. They've probably left at least a thousand voice mails for a great loan opportunity, all from different numbers and different loan amounts.

Personal anecdata: I get much more spam calls on a number from a country with mandatory ID sim card registration than on a number from a country where anonymous sim cards are allowed. Both numbers are almost 20 years old and I barely use them for anything but calls/sms to friends/relatives and receiving bank 2FA SMSes.

Re: The FCC wants your ID before you get a phone number

#62

Post by jmclnx »

>FCC Chairman Brendan Carr framed it around negligent carriers.

Do people remember the "No Call List" ? All that did was provider real phone numbers to telemarketers after they moved their operations to another country to avoid the laws.

How is this going to prevent robocalls ?

All this is really saying to me is: Some politicians got a bribe (or in the US called campaign contributions) to provide a new list of valid phone numbers along with personal information for use for marketing or other purposes.

Re: The FCC wants your ID before you get a phone number

#63

Post by medvidek »

simoncion wrote: post #50
tomrod wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whether we like it or not, ID is required to function in society these days. Why?

Yeah. This USian has reliable access to the following without presenting ID * Telephone service * Internet service * A rental apartment to live in and relevant utilities * Food * Clothing * Entertainment * Medical care * A bank account It has been so long that I can no longer clearly remember, but I think that I didn't have to present ID to get my job and get paid. Maybe things are way worse over in Euroland? Or mayb…

In most of the EU, IDs are issued for free to everyone above age 14/15 (and in many countries you can get one even for a newborn for a small fee). Since everyone has this ID, all banks (nearly?, I haven't seen one that doesn't) require ID card and/or a passport to open an account. For medical care you have a separate card with your compulsory medical insurance information that you present to the doctor but in the worst case they can just look up the info using your ID/passport.

Re: The FCC wants your ID before you get a phone number

#64

Post by rkomorn »

jen20 wrote: post #60
simoncion wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. This USian has reliable access to the following without presenting ID * Telephone service * Internet service * A rental apartment to live in and relevant utilities * Food * Clothing * Entertainment * Medical care * A bank account It has been so long that I can no longer clearly remember, but I think that I didn't have to present ID to get my job and get paid. Maybe things are way worse over in Euroland? Or mayb…

How did you rent an apartment without ID? Every time I’ve done that they wanted an SSN, a credit check, and the pledge that your first born would be named after whatever dipshit was in the office that day. You absolutely cannot get a bank account without an ID either: KYC is a thing. Finally, you must complete an I9 form for any new job, which requires (wait for it) an ID.

I'm pretty sure I've had to show ID going to the doctor's office as well.

Re: The FCC wants your ID before you get a phone number

#65

Post by KevinMS »

gosub100 wrote: post #38
KevinMS wrote: post #6

I can understand the motivation. I've had the same number since the 90's and never once got a spam call until I was in the hospital last year and since then I've been getting 2-3 a day every day. They've probably left at least a thousand voice mails for a great loan opportunity, all from different numbers and different loan amounts.

Probably a coincidence. I didn't get any spam calls either, until I did.

Sometimes they'd screw up their message and call me "patient", and once even called me "file".

Re: The FCC wants your ID before you get a phone number

#66

Post by Cider9986 »

HNisCIS wrote: post #3

Will this finally get Signal to stop demanding phone numbers to register accounts? Lots of services you'd rather have an anonymous account with (Google, Meta, Discord) are partially/fully mandating phone numbers as a spam mitigation strategy. Also this paves the way to internet connections/mobile internet requiring ID

Signal's requirement for phone numbers has allowed it to surge in popularity by allowing it to take advantage of people's already established contacts. They do this in a privacy respecting way[1].

Simultaneously, Signal is trying to raise the cost of accounts by requiring phone numbers. Although spammers can get mass amounts of phone numbers, it will at least raise the cost. Email 0 cents, phone # 10 cents–there will be less spammers with phone #s.

I don't think we'd have to worry about the spam if people only used usernames instead of phone numbers, because it would be massively harder for spammers to find your account and message you. But, with usernames, you don't get the contact discovery that allows for growth.

[1] https://signal.org:8443/blog/private-contact-discovery/

Re: The FCC wants your ID before you get a phone number

#67

Post by SirFatty »

han1 wrote: post #14
big85 wrote: post #13

This is part of the same trend which requires ID to use social media, view adult content, or log into their own computer. The goal is to give government control of computers and communications.

China has had the requirement to "bind" online accounts to ID for almost a decade. No one complained because they already verified with Weixin (WeChat) so they just linked their accounts to it.

And how would you know that no one complained?

Re: The FCC wants your ID before you get a phone number

#68

Post by Lonestar1440 »

jancsika wrote: post #42
Lonestar1440 wrote: post #10

Privacy has to be one goal among many in a reasonable society. I am very glad to see this change, because phone-based Fraud is a plague on the Elderly and other vulnerable members of society. And an incredible annoyance even to a security conscious professional. The guard against intrusive and oppressive government is the Bill of Rights, not some easy ability to get a phone number anonymously.

> Privacy has to be one goal among many in a reasonable society. I have to say, coming from "Lonestar1440" that implies quite the rebrand for Texas: Texas: Just One Star Among Fifty Equals. Edit: clarifications

It's a reference to Spaceballs, not the state fwiw

Re: The FCC wants your ID before you get a phone number

#69

Post by Lonestar1440 »

fwipsy wrote: post #43
Lonestar1440 wrote: post #10

Privacy has to be one goal among many in a reasonable society. I am very glad to see this change, because phone-based Fraud is a plague on the Elderly and other vulnerable members of society. And an incredible annoyance even to a security conscious professional. The guard against intrusive and oppressive government is the Bill of Rights, not some easy ability to get a phone number anonymously.

The Bill of Rights was published over 200 years ago. It can't possibly anticipate the modern privacy landscape. We need to (and do) extrapolate from the intent of the Bill of Rights to cover modern technology. Protecting phone and internet traffic is an example of this, but no longer sufficient. The US is becoming a panopticon. The Fourth Amendment protection against wiretapping is insufficient when the government al…

I agree that we need better case law - downstream of better politicians and better judges - to apply the intent of the 4th to modern society.

And if you think we need a new ammendment to strengthen it, i'm in for that as well.

These are all real solutions

Making "Privacy" easier is not a real solution. The panopticon will get you whether you use a VPN or a burner or whatever.

The only solutions are political.

Re: The FCC wants your ID before you get a phone number

#70

Post by Lonestar1440 »

panny wrote: post #23
Lonestar1440 wrote: post #10

Privacy has to be one goal among many in a reasonable society. I am very glad to see this change, because phone-based Fraud is a plague on the Elderly and other vulnerable members of society. And an incredible annoyance even to a security conscious professional. The guard against intrusive and oppressive government is the Bill of Rights, not some easy ability to get a phone number anonymously.

Okay, but you're telling me kids that don't have a government ID can't have phones now, right?

Yes, I think that the phones of minors should be traceable back to their parents; who would provide their ID at the sale of the e-SIM.
Post reply on HN