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Google broke reCAPTCHA for de-googled Android users

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Re: Google broke reCAPTCHA for de-googled Android users

#161

Post by bellowsgulch »

kittikitti wrote: post #10

Please stop calling Android Linux. It's a marketing lie that continues to disappoint, including here. You're holding Linux back substantially by claiming Android is part of it. Just because it has Unix doesn't mean it's Linux as MacOS is also Unix.

I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as “Android,” is in fact Android/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, Android plus Linux kernel.

Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather a kernel—a core component that manages hardware resources. Android uses the Linux kernel, but replaces the traditional GNU userland with its own runtime, libraries, and system framework.

Many users run Linux-based systems every day without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the Linux kernel combined with Android’s userspace is often simply called “Android,” and many of its users are not aware that it is built on Linux at its core.

There really is Linux in Android, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the other programs you run. The kernel is an essential part of the system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system.

Android is normally used in combination with the Linux kernel: the whole system is basically Android/Linux, a Linux-based operating system with a distinct userspace, not a GNU/Linux system like traditional desktop distributions.

Re: Google broke reCAPTCHA for de-googled Android users

#162

Post by ethin »

reaperducer wrote: post #60
getpokedagain wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop visiting sites and using services that use reCAPTCHA. Problem solved.

Stop visiting sites and using services that use reCAPTCHA. Problem solved. No. Bigger problem created, since there are innumerable government, health care, and educational web sites that use reCAPTCHA. I'm not going to give up reading the test results from my doctor because of some simplistic ideologue decides that it's "problem solved."

The other problem with this is that there are few CAPTCHA alternatives.

CF turnstile is one, but of course that means Cloudflare owns even more of the web.

HCaptcha is inaccessible and actively discriminatory against individuals with disabilities and refuses to change, to the point that I suspect the only way that they will do anything is to file a class-action against them and sue them into the ground.

And I... Can't think of anything else. Other than to just get rid of Captchas entirely.

Re: Google broke reCAPTCHA for de-googled Android users

#163

Post by ranger_danger »

tardedmeme wrote: post #154
ranger_danger wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The QR code/URL would be generated/requested by the javascript running on the website you're viewing, which knows what's in your address bar.

It would be generated by some other website like Amazon. Because I own, say, Meta, I copy these Amazon-generated codes over to Meta, make people scan them on their phones to sign into Meta and then pass the solution back to Amazon so my bots can sign into Amazon.

We don't yet know how the client side works, perhaps there will be a decompilation posted soon.

It's possible this scenario is acceptable to them because it means they can still tie your access to something that's easier to ban without requiring a full account login.

Re: Google broke reCAPTCHA for de-googled Android users

#164

Post by spencerflem »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #153
spencerflem wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the vision, but I do wonder how the parallel internet will deal with DDoS levels of bot traffic. I hear ‘web of trust’ pretty often and I like the idea but that’s not anonymous or accessible either

Well, how does Tor or other services do it now?

They get blocked by Recaptcha, I think.

I’m not talking about the network itself but the servers on the other end.

I guess my point is that while Google is definitely malicious, I don’t think every site using recaptcha is and if we expect them not to use that tool there should probably be an alternative.

Re: Google broke reCAPTCHA for de-googled Android users

#166

Post by donmcronald »

mikepurvis wrote: post #79
freedomben wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, I generally favor being conservative with regulations because they can genuinely impede progress and can be really hard to change or remove when they're bad, but this is an issue that we need regulation for. It's just too much in the interest of big tech to lock us down and strip us of our freedom of compute. Short of regulation. Unfortunately I see the regulatory environment more likely to go the other way o…

An easy first step ahead of a full ban would be insisting that hardware attestation never be used as a gate to access government services. Most other things I can vote with my feet, but viewing my tax returns or renewing my passport are things that can only happen in one place.

This is really the most important thing for me. I don’t want to be obligated by law to use some identity or attestation service tied to big tech. I might be ok with my bank handling it because they already require ultimate trust, but not if they simply defer to big tech or implement infrastructure on foreign ccTLDs (id.me, verified.me, etc.).

I’m Canadian and watching our government sell our souls to American tech companies is beyond scary.

Re: Google broke reCAPTCHA for de-googled Android users

#167

Post by tom1337 »

pixel_popping wrote: post #80

archive.is just asked me for a QRcode scan, I'm so ashame of that crap (it's behind Cloudflare) , forcing website visitors to KYC? Are you guys insane!? the web is ruined if you push for this, this is millions of websites that will suddenly force KYC? What...the...f https://ibb.co/X9Q6Y84 By KYC, obviously it's because there is very few non-criminal ways to have a SIM without KYC and get a Google account for Playstor…

i wondered the same earlier and i am pretty sure they are just mimicking cloudflare's validation page. no way that cloudflare is paying reCAPTCHA when they have theor product, turnstile, available.

Re: Google broke reCAPTCHA for de-googled Android users

#168

Post by ksymph »

tinycommit wrote: post #165

Eww. Ok, so, I’ve used reCAPTCHA on sites I maintain at work, just on forms to prevent excessive bot spam submissions. No way do I want to subject users to this BS, though. Does anyone have recommendations for other decent captchas that could be used instead?

I run into https://www.hcaptcha.com/ and https://friendlycaptcha.com/ from time to time as a user without complaint. Can't speak to the latter but I've used the former a bit and it does the job.

Re: Google broke reCAPTCHA for de-googled Android users

#169

Post by spystath »

papercruncher wrote: post #90
tardedmeme wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the new reCAPTCHA this is going to happen because most human visitors will actually be unable to pass the CAPTCHA. It will be interesting to see whether this makes websites ditch reCAPTCHA or whether they literally just don't care about having customers, an attitude that seems to be getting more and more common every day.

I have been unable to give my money to Home Depot, REI and a growing list of online retailers because they use Akamai EdgeSuite, which just assumes I am a bot and 403s on protected API calls. This happens consistently on any IP and any browser on my Linux desktop/laptop.

There are not enough words to describe how much I hate Akamai EdgeSuite. So many random validation loops and 403s across different physical computers, different operating systems, different connections and even countries. A couple of services I need use it and it's 30% I'll make it past their stupid "protection".

Re: Google broke reCAPTCHA for de-googled Android users

#170

Post by donmcronald »

dwedge wrote: post #118
pino83 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One unfortunate aspect of the entire problem: Go back, let's say 10, 15 or 20 years, when forces were a bit more balanced than today. When all these issues were already quite obvious, but probably somewhat easier to solve. The same people that cry loudly today were completely ignoring all these issues. Actively. And when someone came up with them, that guy was just an idi*t, disturbing the good mood. Right? I can sti…

So just to clarify, you also didn't solve anything but you want everyone to know you told them so and you were smarter? > If you are one of them, you know what I'm talking about. I don't refer to you. But to the other 99.x%. Reminds me of Facebook engagement bait

I saw a lot of people get told they were too dumb to understand how the app stores or Adobe subscriptions were a good value proposition. A lot of people rolled in the mud and now they’re upset their clothes are dirty.

If it didn’t affect those of us that tried to resist, I wouldn’t care, but we got dragged along unwillingly and now it may be impossible to hit the brakes before corporations control everything by usurping control of our identity systems.

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