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Meta Shuts Down End-to-End Encryption for Instagram Messaging

pcmag.com

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Re: Meta Shuts Down End-to-End Encryption for Instagram Messaging

#11

Post by Barrin92 »

daft_pink wrote: post #7

I'm not sure the value of end to end encryption for proprietary application chats. For emails and SMS messages, your messages are being sent between different multiple servers on the open internet and it opens you up to spying, but end to end encryption on instagram is only protecting your chats from Meta. I find the end to end encryption on Facebook to be detrimental to ease of use, because you always have to use a…

the entire point of encryption is that you don't trust the channel you communicate through, that's what it was invented for, communication across adversarial channels. Distrust is the only condition under which you need encryption.

In addition from a practical POV it's if anything the reverse is the case. Email encryption is larp security because plain text is the default, leaks metadata and its interfaces make it trivial for people to leak entire conversations. If there's one technology where you should just assume your messages are public, it's email before someone copy pastes or wrongly forwards your encrypted communication to fifty other people.

Private message encryption makes sense because it's now a default, information exchanged is usually personal, and the problem isn't just Meta but law enforcement extorting your data out of their hands, which encryption in the real world has prevented a few times now already.

Re: Meta Shuts Down End-to-End Encryption for Instagram Messaging

#12

Post by shiandow »

daft_pink wrote: post #7

I'm not sure the value of end to end encryption for proprietary application chats. For emails and SMS messages, your messages are being sent between different multiple servers on the open internet and it opens you up to spying, but end to end encryption on instagram is only protecting your chats from Meta. I find the end to end encryption on Facebook to be detrimental to ease of use, because you always have to use a…

I'm not sure I disagree, but I would summarise it slightly differently.

If you don't want Mark Zuckerberg to upload your private messages into his own chat AI, then stop using Instagram immediately.

Re: Meta Shuts Down End-to-End Encryption for Instagram Messaging

#13

Post by tylerchilds »

Put simply:

I’ve talked to Apple engineers.

Siri fell behind due to how good Apple’s privacy is.

Everyone made fun of them for protecting them.

This is exactly the opposite of that, where Mark is throwing you and your children under the bus again because he’s unoriginal and doesn’t know how to make money any other way than by getting all up in your business, statistically.

Re: Meta Shuts Down End-to-End Encryption for Instagram Messaging

#14

Post by chadgpt2 »

milderworkacc wrote: post #3

I'm not sure if this meets the bar for substantive and thoughtful discussion, but this kind of corporate cowardice, enforced by unelected bureaucrats standing at the bully pulpit is only going to get worse as the noose tightens on the open web. The combination of hardware attestation and walled garden "app stores" is the end goal of most policymakers in this area, and it happens to suit the monopolists in Google and…

Do people expect that Instagram can't read their Instagram private messages? I don't think people expect that. And E2EE is not nearly as cheap as the HN crowd likes to pretend—how do those devices get those keys if not through a central service? Especially if one of them is a web browser?

Re: Meta Shuts Down End-to-End Encryption for Instagram Messaging

#15

Post by cyanydeez »

tylerchilds wrote: post #13

Put simply: I’ve talked to Apple engineers. Siri fell behind due to how good Apple’s privacy is. Everyone made fun of them for protecting them. This is exactly the opposite of that, where Mark is throwing you and your children under the bus again because he’s unoriginal and doesn’t know how to make money any other way than by getting all up in your business, statistically.

thats a generous view. The dystopian fascist view is he's aligning with the surveillance state's interests and instagram is seen as a breeding ground for anti-american-american activities.

Re: Meta Shuts Down End-to-End Encryption for Instagram Messaging

#16

Post by nothinkjustai »

tylerchilds wrote: post #13

Put simply: I’ve talked to Apple engineers. Siri fell behind due to how good Apple’s privacy is. Everyone made fun of them for protecting them. This is exactly the opposite of that, where Mark is throwing you and your children under the bus again because he’s unoriginal and doesn’t know how to make money any other way than by getting all up in your business, statistically.

Apple feels like the only big tech company that remotely cares about its users. Thank god they make the best computer and OS too.

I’m sure this will not be a popular take on HN however.

Re: Meta Shuts Down End-to-End Encryption for Instagram Messaging

#17

Post by Handy-Man »

tylerchilds wrote: post #13

Put simply: I’ve talked to Apple engineers. Siri fell behind due to how good Apple’s privacy is. Everyone made fun of them for protecting them. This is exactly the opposite of that, where Mark is throwing you and your children under the bus again because he’s unoriginal and doesn’t know how to make money any other way than by getting all up in your business, statistically.

They were kinda forced to in the name of "think of the children". The New Mexico case that's been going on at the moment.

Re: Meta Shuts Down End-to-End Encryption for Instagram Messaging

#18

Post by onemoresoop »

chadgpt2 wrote: post #14
milderworkacc wrote: post #3

I'm not sure if this meets the bar for substantive and thoughtful discussion, but this kind of corporate cowardice, enforced by unelected bureaucrats standing at the bully pulpit is only going to get worse as the noose tightens on the open web. The combination of hardware attestation and walled garden "app stores" is the end goal of most policymakers in this area, and it happens to suit the monopolists in Google and…

Do people expect that Instagram can't read their Instagram private messages? I don't think people expect that. And E2EE is not nearly as cheap as the HN crowd likes to pretend—how do those devices get those keys if not through a central service? Especially if one of them is a web browser?

Ok, so drop all pretense then and blatantly scavenge through private conversations? Then take whatever from there and maybe sell it to highest bidder?

Re: Meta Shuts Down End-to-End Encryption for Instagram Messaging

#19

Post by ryandrake »

chadgpt2 wrote: post #14
milderworkacc wrote: post #3

I'm not sure if this meets the bar for substantive and thoughtful discussion, but this kind of corporate cowardice, enforced by unelected bureaucrats standing at the bully pulpit is only going to get worse as the noose tightens on the open web. The combination of hardware attestation and walled garden "app stores" is the end goal of most policymakers in this area, and it happens to suit the monopolists in Google and…

Do people expect that Instagram can't read their Instagram private messages? I don't think people expect that. And E2EE is not nearly as cheap as the HN crowd likes to pretend—how do those devices get those keys if not through a central service? Especially if one of them is a web browser?

I would expect any message facilitated by a company's software, and going through that same company's servers to be compromised.

Re: Meta Shuts Down End-to-End Encryption for Instagram Messaging

#20

Post by mrexcess »

chadgpt2 wrote: post #14
milderworkacc wrote: post #3

I'm not sure if this meets the bar for substantive and thoughtful discussion, but this kind of corporate cowardice, enforced by unelected bureaucrats standing at the bully pulpit is only going to get worse as the noose tightens on the open web. The combination of hardware attestation and walled garden "app stores" is the end goal of most policymakers in this area, and it happens to suit the monopolists in Google and…

Do people expect that Instagram can't read their Instagram private messages? I don't think people expect that. And E2EE is not nearly as cheap as the HN crowd likes to pretend—how do those devices get those keys if not through a central service? Especially if one of them is a web browser?

The answer to most everyone question you’re asking is just, “public key cryptography”. It’s kind of disheartening to me that such basic 1990s tech as implemented by Phil Zimmerman is now obscure enough to merit questions like this.

Both parties exchange public keys through the central service. Only the possessor of the respective (on device, Secure Enclave ideally) private keys can decrypt the messages encrypted to the public key. The process can also work in reverse, encrypting with the private key so only holders of the public key can decrypt: this is called “signing”.

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