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Discord Incident – Resolved

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Re: Discord Incident – Resolved

#51

Post by dietr1ch »

baronvonsp wrote: post #50
dietr1ch wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AWS makes it annoying to be resilient as AZs aren't transparent to their users, so I'm more surprised some were prepared for it. It seems to me these day people are OK with AWS going down and just blaming it on AWS rather than on themselves for not being prepared for big outages. "Oh, nothing we can do because AWS/Cloudflare is down"

> AWS makes it annoying to be resilient as AZs aren't transparent to their users What does transparent mean here? AWS is super clear what resources are zonal and provides tons of guidance around making things multi-AZ. AZ outages aren't exactly frequent but they're reasonably likely. Being susceptible to AZ (or region) outages is very much an architectural decision. Or a bug that needs to be fixed (I'm sure Coinbase…

> What does transparent mean here?

Transparent as a system/box can be, meaning that you can't see / know about it. (Yeah, I guess you can read that not transparent as obscure in disclosure of how their system works, but it shouldn't make much sense)

> AWS is super clear what resources are zonal and provides tons of guidance around making things multi-AZ.

Yeah, they allow people cheaping out for zonal resources and then going down with their zone.

Re: Discord Incident – Resolved

#52

Post by Brian_K_White »

aroman wrote: post #34
Brian_K_White wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not remotely. IRC is distributed and federated. Not only are there countless networks, each network has countless servers, and each group of servers that are up and can see each other can operate on their own, all the way down to a single server, or up to any subset up to all. When a peering connection goes down and the network splits, maybe some people in the group disappear, or maybe from your point of view everyon…

You're arguing against a claim I did not make. Freenode had full-network outages periodically. ddos attacks, infrastructure failures etc. and when those happened, the practical experience was the same... people waited it out. Nobody coordinated a mass migration to undernet or stood up alternative servers for a few hours. (It took much bigger issues - social/organizational/political, not technical - to catalyze the ma…

I'm not really arguing the superiority except as a side effect of answering the question "isn't it the same?" No, it's not the same at all.

When irc servers go down or networks split, the users just hop on other servers if they actually want to keep talking with the same specific people they were.

The earlier comment posed the scenario of being high and dry when they needed to do basically support work with users.

If they don't care then they don't bother, but that doesn't change the fact that if the communication mattered to you, then you are not stuck the way the earlier comment said. You are only as stuck is you feel like. And not just because of the hyperbolic technicality that you can stand up your own new server. You could, but you never need to. There are countless servers already.

And there is no coordinated "mass migration" operation. The channel breaks, you just go browse a few other servers, or if it's exceptionally bad, maybe another network. It's effortless for each user. It takes 2 seconds. You're not trying 1000 other networks blindly either. You already know a few more popular/likely suspects to try first. And so does everyone else, and even when you guess "wrong" and go to dalnet and everyone else is on undernet, there will still be a channel on dalnet with a topic or a user telling you where to go. It's all just not a big deal. It took way more effort to write this comment explaining it than to actually deal with a net split and get back in communication with more or less everyone that was in whatever channel broke.

Re: Discord Incident – Resolved

#53

Post by stryan »

uproarchat wrote: post #4

I keep second guessing whether or not to mention Uproar here out of fear we'll get roasted, because it's still got its blemishes, but here goes: https://uproar.chat We're hoping to do better than discord, hopefully you get some use from it! Backend is written in go, frontend is vanilla html/js/css, TOS and PP are readable in one breath each. edit: looks like nobody can see this unless it's vouched. I guess because of…

From a normie perspective:

- No screenshots on front page, I have no idea what it looks like

- no video chat, no screen sharing

- No downloadable version isn't a feature. What's a PWA?

- "Live audio space" doesn't explain whether it's drop-in voice channels like discord/slack huddles or scheduled audio calls

- The name makes it sound like a Discord clone

From a technical perspective:

- Not FOSS, can't self-host or federate. What makes this less likely to rug pull than Discord/any of the other alternatives

- No information on who is making this

- No information on how messages are encrypted

- Webpage looks vaguely AI generated

- Bot API is A) hidden at the bottom of the very long tutorial, B) seems to be limited to normal user actions (I could be wrong!), and C) desperately needs an index or sidebar

- Unclear whether anonymous channels are truly anon or just anon on the client side

Some stuff seems neat: I am intrigued by anonymous channels and from your feature table it hits more table-stakes features than most Discord alternatives. But I would give it a few touch ups if you want it to stand out.

Re: Discord Incident – Resolved

#54

Post by workfromspace »

uproarchat wrote: post #4

I keep second guessing whether or not to mention Uproar here out of fear we'll get roasted, because it's still got its blemishes, but here goes: https://uproar.chat We're hoping to do better than discord, hopefully you get some use from it! Backend is written in go, frontend is vanilla html/js/css, TOS and PP are readable in one breath each. edit: looks like nobody can see this unless it's vouched. I guess because of…

> Uproar isn't available in your area yet

> We're rolling out to new regions over time to make sure we get things right.

> Stay tuned.

Dead before born.

Re: Discord Incident – Resolved

#55

Post by uproarchat »

stryan wrote: post #53
uproarchat wrote: post #4

I keep second guessing whether or not to mention Uproar here out of fear we'll get roasted, because it's still got its blemishes, but here goes: https://uproar.chat We're hoping to do better than discord, hopefully you get some use from it! Backend is written in go, frontend is vanilla html/js/css, TOS and PP are readable in one breath each. edit: looks like nobody can see this unless it's vouched. I guess because of…

From a normie perspective: - No screenshots on front page, I have no idea what it looks like - no video chat, no screen sharing - No downloadable version isn't a feature. What's a PWA? - "Live audio space" doesn't explain whether it's drop-in voice channels like discord/slack huddles or scheduled audio calls - The name makes it sound like a Discord clone From a technical perspective: - Not FOSS, can't self-host or fe…

Thanks for checking it out and taking the time to give feedback. You made some good points. After staring at the site for so long, you go blind to these types of things, so you're helping a lot here.

>no video chat, no screen sharing

Screen sharing and video chat were added just a few days ago, and I wanted to get that tested more before mentioning it so prominently.

>No downloadable version isn't a feature. What's a PWA?

At the moment, we're a small team, and not all engineers. None of us know Swift or Kotlin, but aren't against learning. Usage is something we want to see before investing that much time into writing these, so in the meantime, a PWA is the best middle ground.

One key differentiator from Discord is that we're not against third party clients, so if in the meantime someone comes out with one we're not going to make any efforts to stop it.

>The name makes it sound like a Discord clone

I see what you mean, if you had a magic wand, what would you call it?

>"Live audio space" doesn't explain whether it's drop-in voice channels like discord/slack huddles or scheduled audio calls

We have video now, but to answer directly, it's similar to a Space on X.

Thank you for the feedback, I will be working this weekend to make these things better articulated on the website!

Re: Discord Incident – Resolved

#56

Post by uproarchat »

workfromspace wrote: post #54
uproarchat wrote: post #4

I keep second guessing whether or not to mention Uproar here out of fear we'll get roasted, because it's still got its blemishes, but here goes: https://uproar.chat We're hoping to do better than discord, hopefully you get some use from it! Backend is written in go, frontend is vanilla html/js/css, TOS and PP are readable in one breath each. edit: looks like nobody can see this unless it's vouched. I guess because of…

> Uproar isn't available in your area yet > We're rolling out to new regions over time to make sure we get things right. > Stay tuned. Dead before born.

If you don't mind me asking, what country are you coming from?

Re: Discord Incident – Resolved

#57

Post by temp0826 »

uproarchat wrote: post #49
jeffwask wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was one AZ. Kinda surprised those guys are built in a way where a single AZ failure takes them down.

For a while there was a joke that if us-east-2 goes down it's not as big a deal because everything is down.

Dynamodb going down in us-east-1 essentially causes an all service, worldwide outage

Re: Discord Incident – Resolved

#58

Post by nozzlegear »

eowln wrote: post #32
this_user wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's gonna get a lot worse with all the AI slopcode that is about to be pushed directly to production.

I predict in the future many will blame the poor overall quality of software and the poor uptime of services on AI, as if things weren’t terrible before AI.

That's already happening in the gaming world. Gamers blame any bug, glitch or upstream issue on AI. In WoW, the most recent patch 12.0.5 had a ton of bugs and users on the forums and other fan sites relentlessly blame Blizzard and "microslop" for using AI to "do their jobs" now.

(And maybe AI was to blame in WoW's case, but the speculation is baseless.)

Re: Discord Incident – Resolved

#59

Post by nozzlegear »

block_dagger wrote: post #22
dakolli wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

llms aren't doing any of that. Some smart people are using llms find those vulns, there's a huge difference.

Your definition of "do" seems different than mine.

Call it agentic all we want, the LLM has no agency. It's not a living thing, it's a tool employed by humans and it helps humans do things we wouldn't normally be able to do, like a calculator. The fact that Claude is getting the credit for it and not the humans guiding it is just an artifact of Anthropic's marketing.

Re: Discord Incident – Resolved

#60

Post by stryan »

uproarchat wrote: post #55
stryan wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a normie perspective: - No screenshots on front page, I have no idea what it looks like - no video chat, no screen sharing - No downloadable version isn't a feature. What's a PWA? - "Live audio space" doesn't explain whether it's drop-in voice channels like discord/slack huddles or scheduled audio calls - The name makes it sound like a Discord clone From a technical perspective: - Not FOSS, can't self-host or fe…

Thanks for checking it out and taking the time to give feedback. You made some good points. After staring at the site for so long, you go blind to these types of things, so you're helping a lot here. >no video chat, no screen sharing Screen sharing and video chat were added just a few days ago, and I wanted to get that tested more before mentioning it so prominently. >No downloadable version isn't a feature. What's a…

Glad you're taking it in-stride, I was worried I was a little too direct. Everyone and their mom is making a Discord competitor these days but being Not-Discord isn't enough to stand out.

> I see what you mean, if you had a magic wand, what would you call it?

Naming things is, of course, the hardest part of programming so somewhat hypocritically I can't say I have an answer :) . It probably depends more on what you view your target audience as and what your main selling point is. Discord worked as a name since it falls in line with a lot "gamer branding". If you have a theme going on I'd go with that, otherwise the age old traditions of picking a random communication related or mashing two words together (Linphone, Threema, Skype, etc) are probably the easiest.

Personally I think I'd go with "Microcosm" or something similar. Sounds cool, abbreviates well to just "micro". Or maybe something with "vox" in it. Honestly it probably doesn't matter too much, people will get used to saying anything.

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