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Apple, Intel have reached preliminary chip-making deal

reuters.com

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Re: Apple, Intel have reached preliminary chip-making deal

#91

Post by GeekyBear »

ahartmetz wrote: post #76
Melatonic wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel just bought a ton of ASML's most advanced machines (way more than TSMC) so theoretically they should be able to manufacture stuff on an equivalent node or better. And given the kind of performance and battery life we have seen from their latest chips they definitely seem to be back in the game

"Big if true". That's surprising. More ASML machines = more capacity in the future. Do you have a source for that? Intel would need to have lots of (and / or very big) customers lined up or big plans to manufacture possibly more than CPUs of their own design to make use of that capacity.

They mention that Intel bought the initial production run in the page that introduced the new product.

> can print transistors 1.7 times smaller – and therefore achieve transistor densities 2.9 times higher – than they can with NXE systems.

https://www.asml.com/en/news/stories/2024/5-things-high-na-e...

Re: Apple, Intel have reached preliminary chip-making deal

#92

Post by aurareturn »

brookst wrote: post #87
aurareturn wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest reason to do this is because TSMC's N2 node and future nodes will be dominated by AI chips. Since AI chips have far bigger margins than most Apple chips, Apple will get outbid by companies like Nvidia, AMD, and Broadcom. Nvidia already became TSMC's biggest customer last year. Every TSMC advanced node from N5 to N2 is fully booked and running at max capacity. It's not really realistic to make Mac, Watch,…

Nvidia’s chips aren’t usually on the latest nodes. The M5 is in N3P, Blackwell is N4P. M6 is expected to be on an N2 node while Rubin is N3P. I don’t think Nvidia even has an N2 chip announced, could be wrong through.

  Nvidia’s chips aren’t usually on the latest nodes.
Not yet. The primary reason is because most AI chips are full reticle sized which means the first year yields likely won't be very cost effective. It takes a new node a few years to fully mature in terms of yield. Little iPhone A series and server CPU chiplets are perfect for new nodes.

That said, Nvidia will certainly try to move smaller and lower volume chips in future generations to the most cutting edge node such as their CPUs, networking chips. Vera Rubin has 7 unique chips. They don't need be all on the same node, and they're not.

AMD is taking up much of the N2 supply with their Epyc CPUs this year. There is no doubt in my mind that Nvidia, ARM, Graviton will try to book as much of the most cutting edge node as possible for their future enterprise CPUs given that AMD has done it for N2. I can see enterprise CPUs becoming equal launch partners to TSMC nodes as Apple. Agentic AI is going to cause a huge demand increase in CPUs.

Re: Apple, Intel have reached preliminary chip-making deal

#93

Post by aurareturn »

GeekyBear wrote: post #88
aurareturn wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this was likely locked up years ago before this boom. Will Apple still be the premier customer for TSMC's next node A14? Apple was actually told by TSMC to move off of N3 asap because Nvidia with its Vera Rubin and Google TPUs will take over. Semianalysis had a great and detailed article about TSMC & Apple and how the future might play out: https://newsletter.semianalysis.com/p/apple-tsmc-the-partner...

The reporting was from August of last year. https://www.macrumors.com/2025/08/28/apple-tsmc-2nm-producti...

It takes TSMC years to develop a new node. Apple has been the launch customer for a long time for TSMC. This agreement likely happened many years ago, before this AI boom.

The Macrumors article definitely isn't when Apple decided to buy half of N2 capacity for the first year. It would have happened years ago.

Re: Apple, Intel have reached preliminary chip-making deal

#94

Post by baq »

whynotminot wrote: post #25

Big deal, smart for all parties, really. Apple standards will make Intel step up and become a better foundry partner. Apple will gain increasingly needed diversification. US supply chain gets a boost. Should be fine for TSMC in the short to medium term. Apple not going to risk actual mainline iPhone SoC on Intel any time soon, so lion share of TSMC Apple revenue will be fine.

> Apple standards

Apple hardware standards. Apple software could use some of these.

Re: Apple, Intel have reached preliminary chip-making deal

#95

Post by aurareturn »

lizknope wrote: post #36

There are no details in the article. It is probably a second source deal for a popular chip or a support chip in an older process node like a power converter.

I'm guessing lower volume, less important chips like for the Watch, TV, entry level iPads, possibly a few Macs.

Re: Apple, Intel have reached preliminary chip-making deal

#96

Post by carlosjobim »

baq wrote: post #94
whynotminot wrote: post #25

Big deal, smart for all parties, really. Apple standards will make Intel step up and become a better foundry partner. Apple will gain increasingly needed diversification. US supply chain gets a boost. Should be fine for TSMC in the short to medium term. Apple not going to risk actual mainline iPhone SoC on Intel any time soon, so lion share of TSMC Apple revenue will be fine.

> Apple standards Apple hardware standards. Apple software could use some of these.

What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Is the internet like this now, that in every message board there is just islands of content floating in oceans of snark?

Re: Apple, Intel have reached preliminary chip-making deal

#97

Post by baq »

carlosjobim wrote: post #96
baq wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple standards Apple hardware standards. Apple software could use some of these.

What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Is the internet like this now, that in every message board there is just islands of content floating in oceans of snark?

Apple standards not being followed by Apple has nothing to do with the topic?

Re: Apple, Intel have reached preliminary chip-making deal

#98

Post by organsnyder »

carlosjobim wrote: post #96
baq wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple standards Apple hardware standards. Apple software could use some of these.

What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Is the internet like this now, that in every message board there is just islands of content floating in oceans of snark?

Always has been.

Re: Apple, Intel have reached preliminary chip-making deal

#99

Post by tobz1000 »

aurareturn wrote: post #48
whynotminot wrote: post #25

Big deal, smart for all parties, really. Apple standards will make Intel step up and become a better foundry partner. Apple will gain increasingly needed diversification. US supply chain gets a boost. Should be fine for TSMC in the short to medium term. Apple not going to risk actual mainline iPhone SoC on Intel any time soon, so lion share of TSMC Apple revenue will be fine.

The biggest reason to do this is because TSMC's N2 node and future nodes will be dominated by AI chips. Since AI chips have far bigger margins than most Apple chips, Apple will get outbid by companies like Nvidia, AMD, and Broadcom. Nvidia already became TSMC's biggest customer last year. Every TSMC advanced node from N5 to N2 is fully booked and running at max capacity. It's not really realistic to make Mac, Watch,…

Panther Lake's efficiency doesn't match M5, but it seems to be very good by all accounts. "Extremely disappointing" is a misrepresentation.

Re: Apple, Intel have reached preliminary chip-making deal

#100

Post by y3ahd0g »

whynotminot wrote: post #25

Big deal, smart for all parties, really. Apple standards will make Intel step up and become a better foundry partner. Apple will gain increasingly needed diversification. US supply chain gets a boost. Should be fine for TSMC in the short to medium term. Apple not going to risk actual mainline iPhone SoC on Intel any time soon, so lion share of TSMC Apple revenue will be fine.

Time will tell but with Ternus taking over, a hardware and engineering mindset, could be going for a long term learn and build together, and of Intel can get it together and go where Apple needs, later buyout Intel.

Lip-Bu Tan is a year older than Tim Cook. Doubt he wants to run Intel for very long.

Would be hard for me in the Ternus role to not have that in mind if Intel gets it together.

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