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The Disappearance of the Public Bench

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Re: The Disappearance of the Public Bench

#121

Post by triceratops »

pocksuppet wrote: post #65
kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because sitting on benches quickly turns into living on benches. Then the drug dealers move in, because there's a ready customer base of drug users . Then the productive members of society move out.

So basically the problem is that productive members of society and drug dealers are incapable of existing near to each other? Why is that? I pass by some drug dealers sometimes on the way to work. I don't see the problem. Occasionally I get asked if I want to buy some drugs. I don't want to buy drugs so nothing else happens.

> [why are] productive members of society and drug dealers incapable of existing near to each other?

Drug dealers are criminals. Criminals commit other crimes and attract other criminals and crime. For example, rival drug dealers who want to take their spot and use violence.

Re: The Disappearance of the Public Bench

#122

Post by jvandreae »

pocksuppet wrote: post #81
gottorf wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What is a drug-addled vagrant?

> It's amazing how much leftist discourse is just them pretending not to understand things, thus making discourse impossible. > https://x.com/MillennialWoes/status/1893134391322308918

Re: The Disappearance of the Public Bench

#123

Post by nradov »

jmyeet wrote: post #32

I believe expensive housing is at the root of many societal problems, it's not even funny. We don't have park benches because we've adopted hostile architecture to keep out "undesirables". This mostly means "homeless people". But why are there so many homeless people? The primary reason is housing unaffordability [1]. One of the funny things about China is that there are a lot of "experts" who insist on reading the t…

You're spreading a common misconception. No one really "owns" a home in China. What they're usually purchasing is a 70-year lease on the land. The hope is that the lease can be renewed on favorable terms but there's no guarantee.

Re: The Disappearance of the Public Bench

#124

Post by paganel »

scoofy wrote: post #85
cousin_it wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that sleeping on a bench, if you don't have anywhere else to sleep, is antisocial?

I’m saying sleeping on a bench that is meant for transit users to wait for a train is, indeed, anti-social. This is fairly trivial to demonstrate using a categorical imperative. If everyone used the transit system to sleep in, then that transit system would likely cease to exist, and the benches would not be maintained. We very much ought to have places for people to sleep. That those resources are rarely provided to…

> If everyone used the transit system to sleep in

Nobody ever does that, whatever a "categorical imperative" might be or represent. But not having benches because a victim of capitalism might, Heaven forbid, sleep on it, is the epitome of cultural and societal barbarism. Countries that do that are not part of civilized society, they might be wealthy, and many of them are (I've seen a similar philosophy in regards to benches in Switzerland), but they're not civilized.

Re: The Disappearance of the Public Bench

#125

Post by pessimizer »

charcircuit wrote: post #75
Loughla wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer to that question in a society that allows (mostly) autonomy of choice is that we let them die on the street. I'm not convinced that involuntary incarceration will actually fix the problem. I believe it will just take it off of the streets and out of the public consciousness.

>I believe it will just take it off of the streets and out of the public consciousness. If antisocial people do not exist in the public consciousness, then that means the problem is fixed. Even you never have to worry about locking your front door, then the problem of burglars has been fixed even if technically would be burglars may exist in prison.

Drug addicts and the mentally ill don't have the problem of being "antisocial." They have drug addiction and mental illness. "Antisocial" is the problem that you have when you see them, and is the problem that is solved when you don't see them. It's a completely narcissistic way of looking at things.

For example, putting you in prison would also solve the problem of your objection to them. You would still be surrounded by drug addicts and the mentally ill in prison, but we wouldn't have to listen to you complain about it, so our problems would be solved.

But that's also not a good solution.

Re: The Disappearance of the Public Bench

#126

Post by fortran77 »

cucumber3732842 wrote: post #97
Taek wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We didn't eliminate benches in public spaces because we wanted to reduce the presence of the nice, respectful, and polite homeless. We eliminated benches to reduce the presence of the problematic homeless, which has a much higher rate of drug abuse and mental illness.

>We eliminated benches to reduce the presence of the problematic homeless, which has a much higher rate of drug abuse and mental illness. We eliminated benches to reduce the rate at which the problematic homeless cross paths with the complainers. The DPW as an organization doesn't give a shit about how many commuter's asses a bench serves from 6am to 8pm. It just knows that every day when Karen sees a homeless man sl…

You use disparaging slurs ("Karen") to refer to a woman who just wants to ride the bus to get to work and earn an living, and you politely call a person who is a public nuisance a "homeless man".

Re: The Disappearance of the Public Bench

#127

Post by dsign »

Urban spaces can be kind or unkind, and benches are a good way to judge.

A week ago I decided to explore a new part of town. I mean, I've only lived in this town for a few years, but I'm not into big cities, and I live in a country where even the capital can feel inordinately leafy and forested if you come from a town in India. I don't come from India, and my dad saw to it that I got acquainted with the ticks and the brambles from a young age, so short of true jungle or a dense mangrove swamp, I consider most places fair game for a leisurely stroll or a rowing. So I was talking with my mom on the phone, relating to her the greens of a small prairie and the reeds demarcating the swampy shore, and counting the many rabbits that were scattering at my passing, when, at a turn of the dirt trail, I found a stark reminder that I was still in town territory: a perfectly normal bench.

Re: The Disappearance of the Public Bench

#128

Post by pessimizer »

cameldrv wrote: post #112
Loughla wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer to that question in a society that allows (mostly) autonomy of choice is that we let them die on the street. I'm not convinced that involuntary incarceration will actually fix the problem. I believe it will just take it off of the streets and out of the public consciousness.

I have a very good friend who was an addict, and I tried to help him turn his life around in many ways, but I couldn’t figure out a way. Professionals told me “he has to hit rock bottom.” Anyhow he wound up getting arrested and spent a couple of weeks in jail where he got clean and decided to turn his life around. He went on to get a couple of masters degrees, get married, have two kids, and has a good job. He credit…

I knew somebody who turned his life around after surviving an attempted murder. I still don't think that means that trying to murder people whose lives are going awry is a rational solution.

Re: The Disappearance of the Public Bench

#129

Post by ultrarunner »

OutOfHere wrote: post #120

Having no public restrooms within a 15 minute walk is worse than having no public benches. Cities shouldn't be allowed to exist without either of them. Also, ground-level restaurants and supermarkets should not be allowed to reject non-customers from using them. Bulk urine is a good source of urea/ammonia which has commercial value, especially considering the global fertilizer shortage.

These are likely good litmus tests for the distinction between a city and "people storage".

Re: The Disappearance of the Public Bench

#130

Post by cyberax »

vavooom wrote: post #105
cyberax wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Actually it stays present! [1] When controlled for any number of factors homelessness is clearly a housing issue. > [1] https://homelessnesshousingproblem.com/

Ah, a great example of how to lie with statistics. Thank you for that, I'll put that in my upcoming book.
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