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Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

elciudadano.com

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Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#271

Post by skeeter2020 »

fn-mote wrote: post #213
M95D wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a replacement until they issue cards that work without a phone.

Frankly, the number of people that care about no-phone functionality is tiny. I bet the greatest preference is the other way: the ability to use it without a physical card. Everyone has a phone. Of course you need a backup at some point, but it’s just that: a backup.

no doubt that is a top FEATURE request, but why do all this work to transfer the system from a US finance oligopoly to a US tech oligopoly?

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#272

Post by skeeter2020 »

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #262
vitorbaptistaa wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be able to pay with Pix, one needs to get a CPF (Brazilian Tax ID). It's not ideal, but you can use Wise to pay using Pix and India's UPI. You simply transfer the money from your local bank account to Wise and they transfer to whatever Pix you tell. It's almost instant. Meanwhile, there are talks about integrating these systems. This is the obvious long-term game, a clear threat to Visa and MasterCard. Right now…

Another advantage is anti-fraud measures and remedy (chargebacks). This (BTW clearly AI-generated) article mentions some fraud thing they're working on (Special Refund Mechanism), so we'll see how long it takes for that to take effect. For now, I'll be using our Canadian not-quite-Pix called Interac to pay small amounts of money to people I trust, but I won't any time soon be buying a fridge with it, or booking a wee…

Canadian here who's not familiar with Pix; is Interac a pretty close comparable? If so, it's not the end-all answer for exchanging money for goods & services, but great in a small subset of transactions.

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#273

Post by c7b »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #233
c7b wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visa/Mastercard are also 100% surveilled. The nightmare of your transactions being monitored and arbitrarily blocked that's peddled as an argument against CBDCs or public financial infrastructure like Pix is already a reality for all of traditional finance (with the exception of physical cash, which happens to also be a central bank product). Sometimes even balances get confiscated, read the horror stories by Stripe…

I'm not american. I'm commenting on my own country. As I said, I'm not defending credit card companies here. Just pointing out the fact that there are problems with pix. It's not the silver bullet people think it is. And yes, it is worse when the public sector does it. You can actually use the government to fight the private sector when it screws you over. When the government does it, then it's just the system workin…

You cannot "use the government". I'm not aware of any countries where it would work like that. You can use the judiciary, which is independent of the government, and you can use it to go against the government the same way you can go against corporations.

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#274

Post by aqme28 »

throwaw12 wrote: post #196
WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #152

I can see that Visa and Mastercard are freaking out, not because Pix can take over their business model, but because it can give ideas to other countries doing the same. I've spent three months earlier this year in Brazil and never used Pix once. Not because I didn't want, but because I couldn't, or let's be honest: my time was not worth the hassle. To be able to pay with Pix, one needs to get a CPF (Brazilian Tax ID…

Europe is already moving towards having own payment system with Wero

I was shocked that none of my cards worked for lots of stuff in the Netherlands. They also have their own system.

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#275

Post by reese_john »

dormento wrote: post #258
reese_john wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, he literally went on national TV on Brazil’s Independence day to claim that “We will defend PIX from any attempt at privatization. PIX belongs to Brazil, it's public, free, and will remain so.” Lula has been historically hostile to the US for ideological reasons. He’s done plenty to undermine that relation, stemming from attacking the dollar dominance, ignoring Iran sanctions, to indirectly financing the Ukra…

Most of these could could be put another way as protecting sovereignty (and that would be the most charitable interpretation IMHO). Examples: - "being hostile for ideological reasons" becomes entirely warranted when you consider the many CIA regime-change operations in the past. - "Undermining the relation" (with the US) is just being smart about how much dependency one has on external factors, like exchange rates an…

> The "investigations" are political posturing. PIX is not "unfair business practice"

Agree

> its a modern, cheap, state-of-the-art payments system that is better than what private businesses like MasterCard and Visa are willing to offer. I can think of plenty of ways they could offer actual value to customers so they can still be relevant.

This is a common misconception. Pix is a form of bank transfer, not a full blown payment infra like MC/Visa. They are different products, Pix doesn't make credit cards irrelevant.

Per BCB statistics: In 2020, before Pix implementation, credit cards accounted for 2% of the monthly BRL volume transacted (~ 200M BRL)

As of 2025Q4: credit cards still accounted .... for the same 2% (~ 800M BRL)

The main question is: historically, why haven't credit cards been more popular in Brazil, even before Pix?

You'll find your answer looking at structural issues (high interest, delinquency rates, bad credit offerings ...), not technical concerns

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#276

Post by forinti »

shimman wrote: post #240
forinti wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has a long tradition of arm-twisting to forward its business interests. This habit is starting to do more harm than good (to them) and they should try to focus on innovating the way China does.

I think you mean this habit has benefit no one outside of a small elite moneyed interests that want to protect their fief. US foreign policy does not benefit Americans, it benefits the elites.

Absolutely. Look at the Portuguese Empire: even at the end most Portuguese were poor and many had to emigrate.

Most British had a low standard of living going into the XX century. Engels' report to Parliament painted a bleak picture of the standard of living in Britain at the peak of the British Empire.

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#277

Post by guiraldelli »

vitorbaptistaa wrote: post #194
WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #152

I can see that Visa and Mastercard are freaking out, not because Pix can take over their business model, but because it can give ideas to other countries doing the same. I've spent three months earlier this year in Brazil and never used Pix once. Not because I didn't want, but because I couldn't, or let's be honest: my time was not worth the hassle. To be able to pay with Pix, one needs to get a CPF (Brazilian Tax ID…

> To be able to pay with Pix, one needs to get a CPF (Brazilian Tax ID). It's not ideal, but you can use Wise to pay using Pix and India's UPI. You simply transfer the money from your local bank account to Wise and they transfer to whatever Pix you tell. It's almost instant. Meanwhile, there are talks about integrating these systems. This is the obvious long-term game, a clear threat to Visa and MasterCard. Right now…

> It's not ideal, but you can use Wise to pay using Pix

If your Wise account is Brazilian. If you have a foreign account, base currency or whatever the name is for that concept, you cannot.

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#278

Post by wslh »

WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #152

I can see that Visa and Mastercard are freaking out, not because Pix can take over their business model, but because it can give ideas to other countries doing the same. I've spent three months earlier this year in Brazil and never used Pix once. Not because I didn't want, but because I couldn't, or let's be honest: my time was not worth the hassle. To be able to pay with Pix, one needs to get a CPF (Brazilian Tax ID…

> Pix is certainly great, but locally only,

Pix is no local as a user, you can use it without a CPF: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48053527>.

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#279

Post by bleepblap »

trollbridge wrote: post #266
SomeUserName432 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be able to pay with Pix, one needs to get a CPF (Brazilian Tax ID). There are third party apps you can use to pay with pix using a credit card, can't recall that name, but read about it here a few months back, on another pix-thread. > CPF (Brazilian Tax ID). Then to open a bank account Getting a CPF is absolutely trivial, but I'm not sure you can open a bank account without RN/RNE, at least not with local banks.…

For comparison, one does not need need to get US tax ID number to use a Visa card.

Calling a CPF a "tax ID" is a bit misleading, much like calling an SSN "the way you get social security benefits". You can (even as a non-citizen) get one in a couple mins at the post office, and it's used for literally everything, including things like buying a SIM card or registering for some public WiFi hotspots.

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#280

Post by bobthepanda »

WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #152

I can see that Visa and Mastercard are freaking out, not because Pix can take over their business model, but because it can give ideas to other countries doing the same. I've spent three months earlier this year in Brazil and never used Pix once. Not because I didn't want, but because I couldn't, or let's be honest: my time was not worth the hassle. To be able to pay with Pix, one needs to get a CPF (Brazilian Tax ID…

Does Pix have an equivalent of a prepay debit card? That seems like the most logical easy setup.

If you must have integration with identity, just tie it to whatever visa or proof of arrival. Last I went to Mexico they were issuing QR codes for inbound travelers.

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