Earlier quoted context omitted.
>>Keeping them in school like it is done now, does not help them in any way Well of course not, because schools don't have the support they need to help those students in turn. >>goes to work at macdonalds I don't know where you live where employing 15 year olds is legal, but even if we assume some kind of state where it's allowed, what mcdolands would employ a 15 year old that was expelled from school? >>and comes b…
>I don't know where you live where employing 15 year olds is legal, but even if we assume some kind of state where it's allowed, what mcdolands would employ a 15 year old that was expelled from school? I live stateside, and I've seen adverts saying they hire 14 year olds
Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
411–420 of 713 posts
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#412Earlier quoted context omitted.
The mental gymnastics at play here are astounding. Why would women acclimate to it and see it as the norm while men don't? If anything, exposing men to violence will also make them more violent in their future relationships.
What mental gymnastics? Women that are abused often marry an abuser because it's just the way things are in relationships. For boys, fighting or threat of violence is just a fact of life. They are taught at a young age not to use that violence against someone that's not roughly physically matched, which includes women. That's why we tell boys never hit girls. Why do you pretend you don't understand?
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#413It’s a tragedy that scholars don’t study Singapore more to understand what it did right. When my dad was born in what was then Pakistan, Singapore (then part of Malaysia) was a poor country. Today it’s rich but the subcontinent is still poor. The best thing all these so-called “humanitarians” could do to improve the human condition would be to study Singapore to understand how that model can be translated to all the…
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#414The only effective punishment/threat that I saw work on my bullies at school was the threat to remove one of them from the football team and prevent him from playing for the school. He turned it around and was ok after that. It was highly effective because it was a bigger punishment than those used for not doing your homework, and because it was highly relevant to him specifically. It worked because we had 16 student…
this can only be effective if the school isn't counting on the bully to help the school win various sports competitions over the next few years. often the school is in a tough spot because the only reason some jocks are there is for their sport ability, that the school needs.
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#415Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why do you assume that it works such in America = world wide? I was in such a system but I was a relief. But not America
I'm not an expert in all nations but systemic abuse in abuse prevention systems is not uniquely american. For instance, the British care system seems consistent with American results - a Brit I talked to told me that in year, roughly 1 in 2 children report sexual abuse at the hands of their caretaker or an older child. It's hard to tell the extent of the unreported abuses. And yet, widespread abuses doesn't preclude…
Also given the lack of scandals in the German system (better most scandals are about how the system wasn't strict enough against abusive parents) I see it is clearly possible to build a better system.
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#416Earlier quoted context omitted.
If strength is relevant, should particularly weak boys be "treated like girls"? Should particularly strong girls be "treated like boys"? Should girls and women without functioning reproductive systems be treated like boys? What differences in social roles have been proven "necessary"? Is the fact that chimpanzees do things a certain way remotely good evidence that we should do something that way too? Answer key: - no…
> What differences in social roles have been proven "necessary"? Given that we're in a huge democraphic crisis which will bring untold disaster and misery, a huge depression crisis, marriage crises, and a loneliness epidemic, perhaps we're not the best arbiters of whether they've been proven "necessary" or not. As for the questions, to some degree they indeed do, so partly yes, but also those differences in treatment…
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#417I see at least 2 issues with the physical punishment: - it will only make the bullies taking their revenge on vulnerable ones with even more cruelty. And they will plan it carefully to be hard/impossible to prove. It will lead to the escalation, not to the resolution - the power will be abused, it's inevitable. I would be so scared to be in a class where "teacher" has the power to harm me physically! (to clarify: I a…
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#418I see at least 2 issues with the physical punishment: - it will only make the bullies taking their revenge on vulnerable ones with even more cruelty. And they will plan it carefully to be hard/impossible to prove. It will lead to the escalation, not to the resolution - the power will be abused, it's inevitable. I would be so scared to be in a class where "teacher" has the power to harm me physically! (to clarify: I a…
Looking back at my own time in school, my primary bully already got beaten up by his own parents, which probably caused him to act out in school in the first place. I would not wish him to also get beaten by the school, and I do not believe that this would have helped me in any way.
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#419Earlier quoted context omitted.
Expel the kid I want everyone to succeed as much as possible, I feel bad for such kids. But at that point, the kid won’t learn, won’t launch, there’s no benefit to keeping them in school and massive consequences for the good kids.
> Expel the kid I guess (from my experience) the expelled kid is actually not that unhappy ;-) about being expelled, since very commonly it actually would prefer not having to go to school. :-)
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#420Earlier quoted context omitted.
Two problems: 1) school education is mandatory until 16-18 in most countries, so what do you do with them once they get expelled. They have to be in education somewhere - so do you just put them in one school for all the expelled students, which is just constantly on fire? You made the problem much worse for yourself(as in - the state). 2) " there’s no benefit to keeping them in school and massive consequences for th…
Some dysfunctional kids are there because of trauma, others because of opportunism and poor impulse control they'll eventually grow out of, and some are fundamentally defective and no amount of support will make them less destructive or dangerous to themselves and others. Psychopathy and narcissism are psychological/emotional disabilities. They're the emotional equivalent of being born without a limb - or in congenit…
Doling out talkings-to, ISS, OSS, bad grades and repeat courses are a relative joke. I spent uncountable hours in ISS for truancy, was made to walk miles to school, kicked off the bus and walk miles home, served community service, and had many talkings-to. None of it was effective.
Expulsion is treated as far too extreme and should be far more regular as both an incentive to the student and to the parents. For many of these kids school is an impediment and a detractor and they would do far better for themselves in the work environment gaining experience over the course of the 3-4 years anyways. There are far more permissive environments in workplaces than there are in school that are better suited for the nature of certain inclinations and measures than that of school. There's also the possibility of restarting vocational education, which frankly, is a good compromise. But the current system is bullshit. And the bar is so low that diplomas are given out to nearly 90% of students which is flatly wrong as from what I've seen there are a lot more people who are either academically or behaviorally unsuited for employment or voting by any reasonable standard. Setting up clear failure modes are the guidelines by which many of these people would derive structure and meaning in their education, instead they're allowed a de minimis exception and passed into the world as acceptably educated and competent when the opposite is true. And that totally erodes the meaning of the accomplishment.