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Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

theguardian.com

391–400 of 713 posts

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#391
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it may be effective for boys but not girls. Men have to deal with some form of violence in their lives, or at least the threat of it. Most male encounters has an undercurrent of violence. Offend another male and you might get assaulted. So when you expose men to violence it's a matter of the world. Like Tyson said, social media made y'all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched i…

What? Your argument is men should be used to violence, so it is ok to hit boys, but women should not be used to violence, so we shouldn't hit girls? We hit boys, so it is ok to hit boys, but we don't hit girls, so it isn't ok to hit girls? That's so very, very wrong.

Men have to deal w/ violence or threat of violence. For all of history this has been the norm. Women are protected from violence.

Let me give you an example. If a man called the police and told them his wife is hitting him, the police would come and arrest the man.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All those differences do impact roles in society. They let women breastfeed. They give men greater physical strength. Other biological differences make women become pregnant. These will affect roles in society. I am a proponent of paternity leave. The counter argument is always based on biological differences. So are the arguments for not having women in many roles in the armed forces. > gender is a human invention.…

Where exactly is the physical strength of males necessary in modern society? The only circumstance in which there are men strong enough to so something that women can't do is at the most elite level of athletics. Any role relevant to society that would require that level of strength, we have machines for, because the majority of men and women are not elite powerlifters, and because they probably need way more strengt…

There's lots and lots of jobs where physical strength makes a fuckton difference. I don't see construction workers, garbage people or figherfighters using exoskeletons yet.

Also, ask women how their mood and abilities swing during their cycles. Both menstrual and life cycle with menopause and stuff. Some have it easy, but many women I know have quite big swings in both cases. And yet modern society requires one to perform the same day in day out. Which works out pretty well for men, but for women... I'm not so sure.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#393

It’s a tragedy that scholars don’t study Singapore more to understand what it did right. When my dad was born in what was then Pakistan, Singapore (then part of Malaysia) was a poor country. Today it’s rich but the subcontinent is still poor. The best thing all these so-called “humanitarians” could do to improve the human condition would be to study Singapore to understand how that model can be translated to all the…

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Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The generalized version of this is "take away something they care about". But it's not always easy to do. In many cases, schools have nothing the kids care about. If they do, rules often prohibit them from using it as leverage. And in many cases parents also are unwilling to apply any kind of consequence that would make their kid unhappy.

Expel the kid I want everyone to succeed as much as possible, I feel bad for such kids. But at that point, the kid won’t learn, won’t launch, there’s no benefit to keeping them in school and massive consequences for the good kids.

> Expel the kid

I guess (from my experience) the expelled kid is actually not that unhappy ;-) about being expelled, since very commonly it actually would prefer not having to go to school. :-)

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#395
As someone born substandard, who only became fully human as an adult, I was both the bully and the bullied as a youth. I've reflected on this throughout my years and see some virtue in this. Bullying can be extremely destructive to one's development, on either side. While I'm not 100% confident caning is the wisest option, personally I greatly value the experience of having my ass kicked for being a menace.

It's probably not for everyone. For the thinking type, it's a solid shortcut to empathy and effective antidote to hostile ego.

If it were up to me, there'd be an option for The Stick, or a brutal psychology session, at least initially. A bit idealistic though when the kinetic purity of the stick often just works.

As adults, I think we tend to forget about the difficulties of childhood bullying, some parents being obvious exceptions. For many, the experience is profound and the impressions lifelong. I get confused here, because I want children to be tough, or prepared to defend themselves, which usually is more effective with experience. But with so many personality types, that cannot apply to all.

There's also the eternal ghost of error and some children who did nothing wrong will inevitably be receiving the stick. That's a small but significant can of worms.

For me this is yet more evidence of humanity's aversion to holistic consciousness. One can argue violence is intrinsic. I think it is but do not agree that its manifestations necessarily are; or rather, we have the potential to change the the output if we really try. Idealistic, yes. The stick is real.

There's also the bizarre possibility that if humanity managed to develop an effective method of imparting empathy, respect, and consciousness to children, that it might break the present system. An awful lot of business wouldn't happen if both parties cared about each other.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's based on millions of years of biological differences in their capacities and functions (starting from body strength and role in reproduction), plus differences in social roles, of which some of the latter might be arbitrary, but some are necessary adjustments every historical society understood.

Or maybe it’s based on bigotry

Nah, I have girls and there's definitely a biological difference there even at a young age. They're much more sensitive to more subtle negative feedback in a way that boys just aren't.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#397

It’s a tragedy that scholars don’t study Singapore more to understand what it did right. When my dad was born in what was then Pakistan, Singapore (then part of Malaysia) was a poor country. Today it’s rich but the subcontinent is still poor. The best thing all these so-called “humanitarians” could do to improve the human condition would be to study Singapore to understand how that model can be translated to all the…

I agree. I worked in Singapore for a short while and I was so very impressed by the people and the government. Singapore is a great place. It is breathtaking to see a government govern in the interests of its people. I live in the USA and we have two institutions, the democratic party and the republican party, that do little except cater to special interests.

I remember when I was younger there was a TV series showing the differences between how things are done in Singapore and my home country. The show showed how efficient, clean, organized, fair Singapore is. An example, how they prevent traffic jams by providing licenses to roads which forced people to find and organize ride shares. Fast forward to a few years ago, I had the privilege to fly there for a few days on vacation. I got into 2 taxis there. One of them explained how corrupt the country was by the banking industry and the other, more memorable one, was a guy in his 70s that still had to work long houes while his wife was on her death bed at home. He called her while I was in the taxi, I saw the conversation and burst out crying myself. I ended up tipping him 100 USD.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely expelling more effective from the school's perspective.

That moves the problem elsewhere, it doesn't solve it.

Generally true, but the school's core protection responsibility is for its own students and staff - not the rest of the world. And the school's authority and resources are even more constrained.

At least in some places, school systems have "special" schools or other programs for the kids who they'd rather keep out of contact with the general student population.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe it’s based on bigotry

Nah, I have girls and there's definitely a biological difference there even at a young age. They're much more sensitive to more subtle negative feedback in a way that boys just aren't.

You have some data point at home so you extrapolate on the entire population?

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#400
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but you also get vastly different outcomes when you don't impose these as well.

Where is the evidence that this is the case in humans?

Can you first define what you'd be comfortable considering as evidence before I spend time on this? I don't want to provide research just so the other party complains that there's still some cultural bias somewhere.

Also, what kind of humans do you generally interact with? How many of these are children?

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