How I went from $100-an-hour programming to $X0,000-a-week consulting • Hacker News Board

Re: How I went from $100-an-hour programming to $X0,000-a-week consulting

#111

Post by polyfractal » Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 8:50 PM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #96

polyfractal wrote: post #81

I feel like every post by Patrick should be printed out and taped to the wall. So many great lessons in his writing. Thanks patio! Question of my own: if you are breaking into consultancy, how do you go about cold-calling potential clients? Say you've identified a few clients that you think you could help. What kind of email do you send them? Go the honest route and say "Hey, I'm new but I want to help your business…

So there's some sort of difference in the neurological makeup of developers and business owners around the phrase "you don't have to pay me." Developers think that proposition decreases risk. Business owners think exactly the opposite . It suggests that there's such significant project risk associated with employing you that the market forces you to self-indemnify for that risk upfront, which virtually no other servi…

Great, thanks Patrick. I didn't even realize that I was self-indemnifying my abilities up front with a phrase like "for free"...but in retrospect it is exactly that. If I'm confident in what I can do...why the need for offering free services?

Thanks for the advice, I'll try to put this into practice. :)

Re: How I went from $100-an-hour programming to $X0,000-a-week consulting

#112

Post by jwingy » Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 8:51 PM UTC

On a related note, does anyone have some informed opinions on the best type of business entity (e.g. LLC vs S-Corp vs C-Corp, etc.) to set up for a consulting business such as this?

Re: How I went from $100-an-hour programming to $X0,000-a-week consulting

#113

Post by patio11 » Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 8:51 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #110

patio11 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does a consultant with programming chops bring that a non-programmer doesn't? The ability to write functional computer code, for one, which is a superpower . Besides that, I speak the language, engineering folks generally like working with me over working with "icky marketing types", I have a good understanding of what is easy and what isn't in terms of implementation, I can spec projects or deliver prototypes w…

Do you mean "functional" as in "it actually works" or "functional" functional?

Fudge, English at 5 AM is not my forte. I meant "functioning" rather than "that one that gets mental co-citations with Lisp but whose definition I cannot conveniently call to mind at present." (n.b. I suspect that there's some business problem you can solve with that, too, but personally I'm pretty pedestrian with regards to programming methodologies.)

Re: How I went from $100-an-hour programming to $X0,000-a-week consulting

#114

Post by Ives » Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 8:55 PM UTC

mootothemax wrote: post #72

pknerd wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what about those who not even in US and belong to a "3rd world country" where one wish to give work only because it's Cheap?

And what about those who not even in US and belong to a "3rd world country" where one wish to give work only because it's Cheap? Be good at what you do; your location shouldn't affect your consulting rates. By way of example, I routinely bill in excess of $100/hour despite being located in Poland. And trust me, I'm working on increasing the value I deliver, and charging appropriately.

I sort of agree. You can definitely bill over $100/hour in Poland (or Belgium, where I'm located) if you're an experienced consultant, but patio11 was billing that much before he changed his pricing approach.

Do you know of anyone that bills 20k$ a week in Poland?

Re: How I went from $100-an-hour programming to $X0,000-a-week consulting

#115

Post by polyfractal » Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 8:55 PM UTC

smiler wrote: post #88

polyfractal wrote: post #81

I feel like every post by Patrick should be printed out and taped to the wall. So many great lessons in his writing. Thanks patio! Question of my own: if you are breaking into consultancy, how do you go about cold-calling potential clients? Say you've identified a few clients that you think you could help. What kind of email do you send them? Go the honest route and say "Hey, I'm new but I want to help your business…

I've been freelancing / consulting for just over a year myself and am discovering more of the process myself. Here's what I've done so far.. - Reach out to your existing network - if you have friends who have done freelancing / consulting, find out what companies they did freelancing / consulting for - chances are those companies still need it. - Offer to meet for coffee / lunch / dinner. I'm based in the UK and was…

Thanks for the advice! I'll give the honesty (without self-degradation aspect) a go.

I've done freelance programming in the past, but the gigs were mostly "build us a CRUD app" type jobs. Paid well, relatively easy work...but not really want I want to be doing. I'd rather be doing bigger picture work like funnel optimization, testing, metrics, etc.

Unfortunately, I also don't have as much experience with this, which is why I think my default instinct was to offer "for free!" as a risk-reducer. The analysis or quick report on their processes is a good idea, and would make me feel more comfortable in the situation I think.

Re: How I went from $100-an-hour programming to $X0,000-a-week consulting

#116

Post by mgkimsal » Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 8:59 PM UTC

TallboyOne wrote: post #23

flurpitude wrote: post #10

Sigh... I'd settle for someone giving me $100 per hour.

If you don't have a large variety of jobs to pick and choose from, you're not doing it right. I'm going to rant here a moment... The secret to getting more work than you can handle (and charging $100/hr, which is not difficult)... DONT SUCK. I swear to god, 95% of people out there suck, your competition. Send emails to your phone, and answer them right away when you're out and about, even on weekends or when you're o…

Have a phone number and an email address on your website.

I'm surprised by how many people complain to me about "I can't find work", but

A) don't know how many people are looking at their site

B) don't even have their own website (outside of, maybe, a github repo)

C) don't have a phone number on their website

D) force me to jump through some sort of BS "contact form with captcha" crap to contact them

I get "well, I'll get flooded with spam!!!"

1. not my problem 2. i don't care 3. so what?

"I'll get too many phone calls!"

Really? That's your biggest concern? You can't find work but are concerned about getting "too many" calls?

Re: How I went from $100-an-hour programming to $X0,000-a-week consulting

#117

Post by sxcurry » Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 8:59 PM UTC

Important take-away - don't ever start compromising on your hourly or weekly rate. Patio is correct - it's very difficult to recover from that. Plus, in my experience, clients who want to bargain on your compensation are already devaluing what you do. I had a client who complained about my rate, and wanted to cut it substantially, because "there were lots of kids around who would work for less." I responded by telling him that he should hire one of those kids, and I would gladly hand his project over to them. I guess he reconsidered, because that was the last I ever heard about lowering my rate. I still work for that client, and have actually raised my rate by 50% over the last few years.

Don't undersell yourself!

Re: How I went from $100-an-hour programming to $X0,000-a-week consulting

#118

Post by nhangen » Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 8:59 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #100

nhangen wrote: post #67

I ended up here on accident, but I can vouch for this system's value. I WAS freelancing at between $75-$100/hour, but having to work very hard for every contract. On the side my partner and I were building software, selling a nice amount but nothing that was going to allow us to retire in a year. However, suddenly people starting emailing us after purchase, asking if we could build custom versions for them. Most turn…

Was this a particularly "niche-y" software that you had (perhaps unknowingly?) positioned yourselves as the leaders? Presumably it wasn't The Next Big To-Do App but something that gave quite a bit of value.

It was our crowdfunding plugin for WordPress - http://ignitiondeck.com

Re: How I went from $100-an-hour programming to $X0,000-a-week consulting

#119

Post by roflc0ptic » Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 9:02 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #40

enjo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be clear: This is different than "freelancing" or "contract development". This is more traditional business consulting. You're going in and changing processes and structures more than anything else. It might be around a specific goal like "make our signups more effective", but you're not just writing some code. You are going in an helping them to change their mindset by incorporating feedback (A/B testing) an…

This meme about there being "contractors/freelancers" and then "consultants" is toxic. In the markets that Patrick and Jason Cohen and Brennan Dunn are talking about, almost the entire difference between "freelancer" and "consultant" is "how you price engagements". It is true that consultants value-price engagements, so that they collect a percentage of the revenue or cost-savings derived from their code instead of a…

>>many people have built and written up methodologies for using code to make money for businesses

Would you mind pointing out some examples, or naming the field of literature? When I googled "optimizing business processes with software" I got a bunch of ads for software. I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking for.

Re: How I went from $100-an-hour programming to $X0,000-a-week consulting

#120

Post by elmuchoprez » Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 9:04 PM UTC

thisisdallas wrote: post #99

elmuchoprez wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I would take some issue with the idea that a typical $200/hour consultant is billing $200/hour for 40 hours a week and taking that much home (taxes not withstanding). A lot of time gets eaten up in client relations, contract negotiations, skill development, etc... none of which is typically billed for. I've seen agency types bill $200 or higher an hour and log 2000+ hours in a year, but the agency is taking a h…

Just out of curiosity, are you offering to set up online stores using Magento or to convert a businesses established online store to Magento? Or are you doing something completely different? Basically, I guess what I am trying to ask is how do you market your Magento skills to make a profit?

Freelance stuff comes my way through a few different channels:

- I do some agency consulting; basically helping them define scope and capability during the contract phase. They're strong on general dev know-how, but don't do enough Magento work to have consistent deep knowledge. These are basically just agency contacts I've built over time and they know to call me.

- I have a number of clients come to me looking to "fix" existing Magento installs that were started by a dev who mostly had WordPress brochure site experience. Lots of people get in over their heads with Magento. This stuff mostly comes to me by word of mouth anymore.

- When I get real bored I'll sometimes do a blanket post to Criagslist saying that I'm excepting new work. You have to put a high hourly rate though because Craigslist is such a bottom-feeder breeding ground that you want to scare off idiots.

It also helps (in some ways) that I have a full time job as a Magento dev for a decent size network of sites. It pretty much keeps me sharp on a daily basis, which gives me an advantage over general dev shops who might only do a handful of Magento projects per year.

EDIT: Contacts at a hosting company are another good source. LOTS of people need their Magento sites upgraded and due to heavy customization and general compatibility issues, lot's of these managed hosting solutions don't really want to do it from their end, so they can send clients who need upgrades your way.