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Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

theguardian.com

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Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#351

Post by naasking »

gramie wrote: post #101
davyAdewoyin wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I previously mentioned, if you actually grew up in a system where corporal punishment is carried out, you would find that point two is not such a bother. No one cares whether a parent or teacher can cane them except they were in the wrong of course, perhaps because it is a culture and a shared experience and I knew a lot of children growing up who prefer the canning to other form of punishment. I think the issue l…

> such cases were easily resolved Hah! In any case, it is a curious argument that, in order to show that stronger people should not hurt weaker people, you think it's okay for stronger people to hurt weaker people.

> it is a curious argument that, in order to show that stronger people should not hurt weaker people, you think it's okay for stronger people to hurt weaker people

Not curious at all. Ingrains the lesson that, should you feel inclined to abuse your strength, there is always someone stronger. That's a clear lesson that even works on psychopaths who otherwise feel no remorse and cannot be influenced by other means.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#352

Post by theoeifjf »

throwawayk7h wrote: post #188

I've never understood the illiberal desire to treat boys and girls so differently. I'm glad I live in a country where sexism is illegal at a fundamental level -- this kind of law would be quickly struck down.

Does not US have like 70% infant circumference rate and conscription for single gender?

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#353

Post by Jensson »

blks wrote: post #291
bitlax wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They like it as a punishment for boys exclusively.

I guess hitting girls with sticks makes them uneasy, huh. Maybe they should apply the same empathy to all children.

No its because hitting women with sticks as punishment is illegal in Singapore but its legal to do to men.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#354

Post by Quarrel »

TurdF3rguson wrote: post #298
cpursley wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find it really amusing that the most pro trust the science people who are in total agreement with all the evolution theories are often also the ones who are the first to be in complete denial that us humans might actually share some characteristics with our closest genetic relatives (chimpanzees).

Bonobos are just as close and they're matriarchal. They're a very different species.

They're chimps that are on the other side of the Congo river (and both types of genus Pan can't swim).

They're super close to chimps (and definitely much closer than us), rather than "a very different species".

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#355

Post by almostjazz »

mihaic wrote: post #238
blks wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you impose gender ideology, gender roles on them from age 0, yeah you will get vastly different outcomes for boys and girls.

Yes, but you also get vastly different outcomes when you don't impose these as well.

Where is the evidence that this is the case in humans?

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#356

Post by mantas »

blks wrote: post #296
mantas wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may want to do some research on this thing called „hormones“ and how they differ in both genders.

Hormones don’t raise kids in particular gender norms, don’t carve them a place in society, don’t feed them gender-based culture 24/7. They do have a physical impact, impact on sexual development, their sex, reproductive function, temperament, but gender is a human invention.

What you call „gender norms“ is the result of society trying to contain said differences.

Physical possibilities are differences, drives are different, temperament and it's swings are different. Also many other differences. But hey, let's hide all the differences, strengths and weaknesses... And pretend everyone is equally good at everything.

We need equality, not sameness. Brute-forcing equality-through-sameness sucks on both sides. I'd say girls and women are more affected though. But men ain't taking it easy either. It's a hill I'm willing to take downvotes on.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#358

Post by baobabKoodaa »

dash2 wrote: post #157

This seems a good place to point out that the evidence for the harmful effects of corporal punishment is very low quality: https://wyclif.substack.com/p/the-academic-literature-on-sma...

Some things can be good/bad in and of themself, rather than just a means to an end. I would argue that "violence against children" is bad in and of itself, and outlawing it is good in and of itself. If you want to argue that you see violence against children as a useful means to an end, why stop there? Let's also put the children to work. The children yearn for the mine.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#359

Post by naasking »

beng-nl wrote: post #197
InsideOutSanta wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking back at my own time in school, my primary bully already got beaten up by his own parents, which probably caused him to act out in school in the first place. I would not wish him to also get beaten by the school, and I do not believe that this would have helped me in any way.

Well said. I think we all shouldnt be too quick to assume that the problem starts with the person doing the bullying, nice and simple as that would be.

> I think we all shouldnt be too quick to assume that the problem starts with the person doing the bullying

I don't think anyone is making that assumption, but being ok with corporal punishment likely comes down to three things:

1. We should care more about victims of violence than perpetrators, and all measures should be taken to protect victims and prevent victimization, even if it hurts perpetrators. Meaningful consequences for violent behaviour is critical.

2. The belief the physical deterrents work, if applied consistently and not abused to the point where it doesn't provide clear guidance as to acceptable behaviour.

3. That the primary job of schools and educators is to provide a safe and effective learning environment. Being therapists that get to the root of problematic behaviour is neither in their training nor in their job description.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#360

Post by kakacik »

blks wrote: post #210
ryandrake wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - the power will be abused, it's inevitable. I would be so scared to be in a class where "teacher" has the power to harm me physically! (to clarify: I am very much out of the school age, but just thinking about this perspective is making me feel uneasy) Absolutely. I would never agree to allow teachers the ability to apply violence to my kid with no due process or proof of wrongdoing. Teachers play favorites and ca…

This comment implies that you’d okay with your child being beaten if there are strong evidence against him?

In theoretical land - if my son had beaten some other kid to pulp, and he got a slap from teacher to stop that (on top of probably being expelled)? Absolutely, the least of the issues in such problem.

This is very far from organized canning as a punishment, but stating teacher should never ever use violence or they end up losing their job for good and getting dragged to courts with possibility of jail is just as extreme position as letting them be beaten at teacher's will.

Middle path folks, middle path. If you don't trust teachers at all in the first place, why do you give them your children to co-raise them? Schools should do procedural punishments, not corporal. But 100% is a fairy land, and some psychotic parents who never admit their child is doing something bad (and there are so many of those, aren't they just ask literally any teacher) take it as a gospel and go to jihad mode against anybody. World doesn't need more empowered Karens, do we.

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