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Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

elciudadano.com

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Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#201

Post by embedding-shape »

throwaw12 wrote: post #196
WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #152

I can see that Visa and Mastercard are freaking out, not because Pix can take over their business model, but because it can give ideas to other countries doing the same. I've spent three months earlier this year in Brazil and never used Pix once. Not because I didn't want, but because I couldn't, or let's be honest: my time was not worth the hassle. To be able to pay with Pix, one needs to get a CPF (Brazilian Tax ID…

Europe is already moving towards having own payment system with Wero

Most European countries I frequent already have their own local equivalent to Pix. In Spain almost everyone has Bizum, and not uncommon for vendors at markets to accept it too, Sweden has Swish which is the same deal for the Swedes. I think this lists the most prominent ones that are in wide usage today already: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Mobile_Payment_System...

Apparently, some of these already have interoperability between each other too (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Payments_Alliance), happy to learn I can now send/receive money to/from my Portuguese brethren :)

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#203

Post by bilekas »

WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #152

I can see that Visa and Mastercard are freaking out, not because Pix can take over their business model, but because it can give ideas to other countries doing the same. I've spent three months earlier this year in Brazil and never used Pix once. Not because I didn't want, but because I couldn't, or let's be honest: my time was not worth the hassle. To be able to pay with Pix, one needs to get a CPF (Brazilian Tax ID…

> Pix is a good local idea, but the world needs something better.

There is no problem to continue using maybe Visa/Mastercard when dealing abroad or external, but when you are a normal citizen, it's far better to use Pix in this case, you are supporting a national company, paying fee's to them and not at the whims of an external countries policies.

Edit: They also tend to be non profits ironically enough.

In Ireland many years ago there was a system called "Laser" which was very similar, the only reason it was changes was for 'convenience' but in reality it was because Visa and MC had taken over all the POS market, and so Laser cards couldn't give cash back. So the banks just folded.

I can't wait to see Europe being some competition to the duopoly that is Mastercard and Visa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_(debit_card)

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#204

Post by Antirust3743 »

vitorbaptistaa wrote: post #194
WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #152

I can see that Visa and Mastercard are freaking out, not because Pix can take over their business model, but because it can give ideas to other countries doing the same. I've spent three months earlier this year in Brazil and never used Pix once. Not because I didn't want, but because I couldn't, or let's be honest: my time was not worth the hassle. To be able to pay with Pix, one needs to get a CPF (Brazilian Tax ID…

> To be able to pay with Pix, one needs to get a CPF (Brazilian Tax ID). It's not ideal, but you can use Wise to pay using Pix and India's UPI. You simply transfer the money from your local bank account to Wise and they transfer to whatever Pix you tell. It's almost instant. Meanwhile, there are talks about integrating these systems. This is the obvious long-term game, a clear threat to Visa and MasterCard. Right now…

Wise remains one of the worst professional support experiences I've ever had at my company and would highly advise people not to use them.

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#205

Post by kakacik »

melting_snow wrote: post #158
WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #152

I can see that Visa and Mastercard are freaking out, not because Pix can take over their business model, but because it can give ideas to other countries doing the same. I've spent three months earlier this year in Brazil and never used Pix once. Not because I didn't want, but because I couldn't, or let's be honest: my time was not worth the hassle. To be able to pay with Pix, one needs to get a CPF (Brazilian Tax ID…

> but because it can give ideas to other countries doing the same This is happening right now in Europe. You have systems like Blik, Twint, Swish etc. I know that at least Blik is working on making it possible for international payments.

Twint is in Switzerland for more than 10 years, hardly a new idea

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#206

Post by Freak_NL »

ptman wrote: post #185
Sukram21 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since last year, all EU banks have to support SEPA Instant Transfer, both receiving & sending, at the same price as a usual transfer (Instant Payments Regulation 2024/886)

If only https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPC_QR_code supported a sepa instant bit so that one could just show a qr code, scan it with whatever payer banking app and authorize the sepa instant payment.

This is what Ideal/Wero does. Because this is the standard for webshops in the Netherlands (and rapidly expanding to the whole EU) the only gap left to fill was that of consumer-to-consumer transfers with just a QR code to scan. Tikkie I mentioned above solves that well enough in the Netherlands, although that bank-run app is horribly laden with stupid ads and deals you can't seem to turn off.

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#207

Post by Pooge »

ptman wrote: post #183
Pooge wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't have said it better. I don't understand what they solve. We need instant, free SEPA transfers around the clock. Switzerland is not part of SEPA but IBAN is used so it is trivial to send payments to foreign accounts that have an IBAN. I always say that the day Trump decides to block Visa/MasterCard outside the US is the day we get instant payments and finally get rid of cards.

SEPA instant already exists. I think it guarantees sub-10s transactions. Unfortunately it is not the default.

SEPA is only for Euros but there are countries that don't use Euros that still use IBAN (e.g. Switzerland and UK).

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#208

Post by pimeys »

kjetijor wrote: post #119
Nathanba wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sharing banking information is not safe in Europe, decades ago a phone scammer convinced me to give them my information and they were able to pull money from my account without any permission from me whatsoever, they just acted like I already signed up to their scam service when I never did. That was a completely foreign and insane idea to me (and it is still insane and should not be allowed) that someone can simply…

"decades ago" Granted, I'm mostly familiar with the Scandinavian bit of Europe, but you can't do jack shit with banking without 2FA which is tied into the national population register. They decided in the 80ies or 90ies that "relying on knowing secret fixed magic numbers" was not ideal for authenticating people, and sat down and worked out solutions to that problem.

There's still the SEPA direct debit payments in Germany, so you basically give your bank details and the company takes the money out of your account once a month. These don't exist in Scandinavia, but are very much still the norm in Germany.

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#209

Post by somewhatgoated »

Antirust3743 wrote: post #204
vitorbaptistaa wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be able to pay with Pix, one needs to get a CPF (Brazilian Tax ID). It's not ideal, but you can use Wise to pay using Pix and India's UPI. You simply transfer the money from your local bank account to Wise and they transfer to whatever Pix you tell. It's almost instant. Meanwhile, there are talks about integrating these systems. This is the obvious long-term game, a clear threat to Visa and MasterCard. Right now…

Wise remains one of the worst professional support experiences I've ever had at my company and would highly advise people not to use them.

What is a better alternative in your experience?

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#210

Post by aretology »

I have a credit card from BB, and I also use pix from time to time but not as much as a credit card. When Uncle Sam started bullying PIX I did what I never thought I would actually do. Since I can't stop using credit card (because it's helpful in my life) I canceled my Visa card with BB and requested ELO cc, created in 2011 by Bradesco, Banco do Brasil, and Caixa, not regretting anything. Blowing out someone else’s candle doesn’t make yours shine any brighter.
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