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Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

theguardian.com

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Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#221

Post by chr1 »

gambiting wrote: post #211
armchairhacker wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Expel the kid I want everyone to succeed as much as possible, I feel bad for such kids. But at that point, the kid won’t learn, won’t launch, there’s no benefit to keeping them in school and massive consequences for the good kids.

Two problems: 1) school education is mandatory until 16-18 in most countries, so what do you do with them once they get expelled. They have to be in education somewhere - so do you just put them in one school for all the expelled students, which is just constantly on fire? You made the problem much worse for yourself(as in - the state). 2) " there’s no benefit to keeping them in school and massive consequences for th…

Keeping them in school like it is done now, does not help them in any way, it merely transforms school from a place to learn into a mini prison where dysfunctional kids do not allow other kids to learn too.

15 year old who decides that he doesn't want to learn would be much better off if he gets expelled, goes to work at macdonalds, and comes back later, than the current situation where he gets to go to school and do nothing.

Also the mere possibility of being expelled and having to go to work will help many more children to keep studying.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#222

Post by arjie »

yowo wrote: post #192

I was hit with wooden 100cm ruler in middle school multiple times, it is painful for an hour or so but not emotionally damaging or anything, I'd be happy to meet that teacher today, I dropped out from high school eventually after I've been reducled and mocked at by a principal repeatedly as I didn't like to shave my facial hair, which I assume happen all the time and isn't as controversial. I kept dreaming of vandali…

Surely there is some irony to claiming no emotional impact while you ruminate in dreams about revenge.

I got in terrible trouble in school and did act out but never in reaction to corporal punishment. As it so happens, if you’re a boy the challenge is to take it without showing any sign of its effect.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#224

Post by samuell »

andyferris wrote: post #173
samuell wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is probably one of the biggest problem with the outsourcing of parenting for half their awake time that is happening with our established school system. Not that I claim it is super easy to find an alternative on a large scale, but I think societies need to think hard about how to enable involving parents to be as much involved as possible in the kid's day. (For parents working full time shifts + commuting in a…

> outsourcing It should also be pointed out that children and teens especially benefit from a range of role models and mentors. Having the parent(s) provide 100% of the (life and academic) lessons is not actually ideal. You say outsourcing, I say providing a range of different people to learn from. (It takes a village to raise a child…). Not saying the current school system is perfect (it’s a rather dystopian “villag…

I think the village would be a healthy model for sure. But that is something that was pretty much killed in the modern society as well as most people, especially lower/mid-income workers in larger cities, are spending exceedingly little time of their day in their local neighborhoods.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#225

Post by sayamqazi »

yowo wrote: post #192

I was hit with wooden 100cm ruler in middle school multiple times, it is painful for an hour or so but not emotionally damaging or anything, I'd be happy to meet that teacher today, I dropped out from high school eventually after I've been reducled and mocked at by a principal repeatedly as I didn't like to shave my facial hair, which I assume happen all the time and isn't as controversial. I kept dreaming of vandali…

These things only hurt emotionally when done wrongfully.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#226

Post by graemep »

andyferris wrote: post #173
samuell wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is probably one of the biggest problem with the outsourcing of parenting for half their awake time that is happening with our established school system. Not that I claim it is super easy to find an alternative on a large scale, but I think societies need to think hard about how to enable involving parents to be as much involved as possible in the kid's day. (For parents working full time shifts + commuting in a…

> outsourcing It should also be pointed out that children and teens especially benefit from a range of role models and mentors. Having the parent(s) provide 100% of the (life and academic) lessons is not actually ideal. You say outsourcing, I say providing a range of different people to learn from. (It takes a village to raise a child…). Not saying the current school system is perfect (it’s a rather dystopian “villag…

I think you misunderstand the premise - in fact I struggle to understand how you interpreted the GP that way. No one is arguing that parents should provide 100% of life and academic lessons or that kids should be locked up at home, but that they, rather than schools, should have the leading role.

I took my kids out of school when they were eight or nine and up to 16 (the end of compulsory school age in the UK) my experience was that they met a wider range of people, and had a lot more freedom. Instead of being locked up at school they were free to do more on their own or with friends and to go to a wide range of classes and activities. They have done well academically (conditional offer from Oxford for one, the other starting a PhD later this year) and I was complimented regularly on their social skills when they were children, and this seems to be continuing as adults (and my older daughter now has work responsibilities that require soft skills - I would assume she would not have them if her managers had not observed her as having the skills).

The problem is not the involvement of other people, it is the outsourcing of responsibility and decision making and the main part of parenting. Parents are frequently little involved.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#228

Post by xienze »

imtringued wrote: post #202
xienze wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds crazy, I know, but perhaps boys and girls are different.

This comment explains absolutely nothing and it feels utterly irrelevant in either direction and probably shouldn't have been posted. It can be read negatively against boys or negatively against girls so why post it?

> This comment explains absolutely nothing

Sure it does. Boys and girls are different. Hence, they receive different treatment, which the OP was originally befuddled by.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#229

Post by zdc1 »

HlessClaudesman wrote: post #220
blks wrote: post #207

Violence creates more violence. Singapore has a lot of these sick backwater policies in place.

If that were true Singapore would be a particularly violent place, it's not. Source: I lived there.

Singapore isn't particularly violent, it's just efficient. It's the threat of deportation (huge swathes of the population are on work visas) or punishment that keeps people in line. Even their prisons aren't very violent, it's just that if you commit a crime, the police will find you (it's a small place with lots of cameras) and the courts will apply the standard sentencing.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#230

Post by sayamqazi »

rlonn wrote: post #182
InsideOutSanta wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting article, but I find the conclusion peculiar. So there's no good scientific evidence that corporal punishment helps children in the long run, and the best available evidence links it to worse outcomes rather than better ones, but because we can't do stuff like double-blinded studies with control groups, "bans on smacking have got far ahead of the evidence, and should be actively opposed until the…

Seems there actually is a fair amount of research pointing to prohibiting corporal punishment for kids leads to better mental health, lower suicide rate, etc. and it does seem like a no-brainer to me that less violence leads to more stable individuals, and a more stable and happy society in general. In medieval times there was a lot of physical punishment, and society was violent, dangerous and unhappy compared to no…

I am as asian and I was at the receiving end of pretty severe (trust me you dont wanna know the details) physical abuse as a child. It did leave some lasting damage but surprisingly it didnt affect my academic outcomes and I dont feel like someone who would ever ever consider suicide for anything whatsoever.
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