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Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

theguardian.com

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Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#211

Post by gambiting »

armchairhacker wrote: post #205
BrenBarn wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The generalized version of this is "take away something they care about". But it's not always easy to do. In many cases, schools have nothing the kids care about. If they do, rules often prohibit them from using it as leverage. And in many cases parents also are unwilling to apply any kind of consequence that would make their kid unhappy.

Expel the kid I want everyone to succeed as much as possible, I feel bad for such kids. But at that point, the kid won’t learn, won’t launch, there’s no benefit to keeping them in school and massive consequences for the good kids.

Two problems:

1) school education is mandatory until 16-18 in most countries, so what do you do with them once they get expelled. They have to be in education somewhere - so do you just put them in one school for all the expelled students, which is just constantly on fire? You made the problem much worse for yourself(as in - the state).

2) " there’s no benefit to keeping them in school and massive consequences for the good kids" - the massive consequences for kicking them out and not dealing with the problem are then on us, the society, because you get dysfunctional kids that got no help and just got kicked out instead. What kind of adults do you think they will grow into? Or is the answer "I don't care"?

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#212

Post by stubish »

euroderf wrote: post #5
lioeters wrote: post #4

Solution against bullies: a bigger bully.

So, a regulating force must necessarily be of the same nature ?

This is the last resort punishment, so no, not necessarily. I'm surprised the last resort punishment isn't expulsion though, like it is in most places. I guess education is a right that can't be taken away?

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#214

Post by gambiting »

rusk wrote: post #184
cherryteastain wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely expelling more effective from the school's perspective.

Surprisingly hard to expel a child, particularly in the more privileged schools … far more satisfying from the perspective of an educator if they can address the issue.

>>Surprisingly hard to expel a child, particularly in the more privileged schools

In my experience - it's the reverse. Expensive private schools were quick to expel students because as much as they liked the money they liked having good academic results they could boast about much more. It's the basic run of the mill public schools that can't expel anyone because the student has to be in education somewhere and they might be the only school in the catchment area, so there are no good alternatives.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#215

Post by blks »

yowo wrote: post #192

I was hit with wooden 100cm ruler in middle school multiple times, it is painful for an hour or so but not emotionally damaging or anything, I'd be happy to meet that teacher today, I dropped out from high school eventually after I've been reducled and mocked at by a principal repeatedly as I didn't like to shave my facial hair, which I assume happen all the time and isn't as controversial. I kept dreaming of vandali…

You’ll be happy to meet him to do what? Hit him with a ruler multiple times?

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#216

Post by throwthrowuknow »

armchairhacker wrote: post #205
BrenBarn wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The generalized version of this is "take away something they care about". But it's not always easy to do. In many cases, schools have nothing the kids care about. If they do, rules often prohibit them from using it as leverage. And in many cases parents also are unwilling to apply any kind of consequence that would make their kid unhappy.

Expel the kid I want everyone to succeed as much as possible, I feel bad for such kids. But at that point, the kid won’t learn, won’t launch, there’s no benefit to keeping them in school and massive consequences for the good kids.

If corporal punishment is effective then we don’t have to terminate anyone’s education. For some kids it may just take one painful lesson to turn them around so why forgo that and ruin their lives?

Certainly, if they also don’t care about physical punishment then expel them as a hopeless case but don’t do it reflexively as a cop out.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#217

Post by blks »

freetime2 wrote: post #112

I was horrified to read this, assuming it was the same type of caning used on prisoners that causes severe damage and leaves lifelong scars. But apparently it is a much milder form for students [1]: > In a much milder form, caning is used as a disciplinary measure in schools. Boys aged between 6 and 19 may be given up to three strokes with a light rattan cane on the buttocks over clothing or the palm of the hand as a…

If they like it so much, they should apply it to all kids, not just boys.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#218

Post by roryirvine »

ivanb wrote: post #137
roryirvine wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporal punishment was banned in the UK in 1998. In the 28 years since, there have been 175 terrorist-related deaths. Compare that with the 28 years before, when there were 3,262 terrorist-related deaths.

Most if not all the terrorist-related deaths are attributed to The Troubles that ended in - you guessed that - 1998. It is not possible to attribute the deaths or lack thereof to corporal punishment.

Well, yes, obviously.

But it's even less possible to claim that the lack of severe punishment has increased terrorism, as cedws was saying.

Even when you exclude NI, terrorism is lower now than in the past yet punishments have not become notably more severe.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#219

Post by dude250711 »

coldtea wrote: post #194
throwawayk7h wrote: post #188

I've never understood the illiberal desire to treat boys and girls so differently. I'm glad I live in a country where sexism is illegal at a fundamental level -- this kind of law would be quickly struck down.

Maybe it's based on millions of years of biological differences in their capacities and functions (starting from body strength and role in reproduction), plus differences in social roles, of which some of the latter might be arbitrary, but some are necessary adjustments every historical society understood.

The big idea lately is to ignore all of that and just give everyone equal rights but unequal responsibilities.
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