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Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

theguardian.com

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Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#191

Post by oreally »

rlonn wrote: post #182
InsideOutSanta wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting article, but I find the conclusion peculiar. So there's no good scientific evidence that corporal punishment helps children in the long run, and the best available evidence links it to worse outcomes rather than better ones, but because we can't do stuff like double-blinded studies with control groups, "bans on smacking have got far ahead of the evidence, and should be actively opposed until the…

Seems there actually is a fair amount of research pointing to prohibiting corporal punishment for kids leads to better mental health, lower suicide rate, etc. and it does seem like a no-brainer to me that less violence leads to more stable individuals, and a more stable and happy society in general. In medieval times there was a lot of physical punishment, and society was violent, dangerous and unhappy compared to no…

Sometimes you don't need to make a study showing some number to act on something.

It can be a simple chain of logic saying: % of children try to test their boundaries. Of those children some get away with it, some don't. Of those who get away with it, they carry on doing it, and it has reprecussions down the line. If you look at the problem this way, it's a rational take on caning - to tighten the net against bullying.

Posted more context here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48059470

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#192

Post by yowo »

I was hit with wooden 100cm ruler in middle school multiple times, it is painful for an hour or so but not emotionally damaging or anything, I'd be happy to meet that teacher today, I dropped out from high school eventually after I've been reducled and mocked at by a principal repeatedly as I didn't like to shave my facial hair, which I assume happen all the time and isn't as controversial. I kept dreaming of vandalizing his car for a decade but didn't want to get in trouble.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#193

Post by HatchedLake721 »

throwawayk7h wrote: post #188

I've never understood the illiberal desire to treat boys and girls so differently. I'm glad I live in a country where sexism is illegal at a fundamental level -- this kind of law would be quickly struck down.

Which country is that?

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#194

Post by coldtea »

throwawayk7h wrote: post #188

I've never understood the illiberal desire to treat boys and girls so differently. I'm glad I live in a country where sexism is illegal at a fundamental level -- this kind of law would be quickly struck down.

Maybe it's based on millions of years of biological differences in their capacities and functions (starting from body strength and role in reproduction), plus differences in social roles, of which some of the latter might be arbitrary, but some are necessary adjustments every historical society understood.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#195

Post by JuniperMesos »

Tadpole9181 wrote: post #50
1718627440 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Locking people in a room also isn't pleasant, yet we allow it, because we think it has a deterring effect. Hitting people with sticks or tear gas, forcing there limbs together with steel also isn't very nice. Neither is forcing people in a plane and sending them off into dangerous environments just because they happen to be born there.

Locking criminals away to protect innocent people is different than caning and you know that. And I'm pretty sure the type of person speaking out against outdated, abusive child rearing doesn't support the use of cudgels or tear gas in law enforcement or unsafe/cruel deportation.

> Locking criminals away to protect innocent people is different than caning and you know that.

No, I don't think it is different. Both are applications of state violence for enforcing laws. I think it would be reasonable to use (public) caning as a judicial punishment in the US for certain kinds of crimes, for the same reason I think it is reasonable to use incarceration as a judicial punishment in the US for other types of crimes.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#196

Post by JuniperMesos »

AshleyGrant wrote: post #103
walletdrainer wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what’d be the point? The police will not be interested in the would-be phone thief, calling them would be of negative value to society.

So, because there is a failure of policing in your locale, we should simply resort to vigilante justice? Looks to me like you should be pissed off at the police in your locale for forcing you to fend for yourself against criminals.

> So, because there is a failure of policing in your locale, we should simply resort to vigilante justice?

Yes; under those conditions vigilante justice is a reasonable way to 1) protect society from criminals, and 2) encourage the state to correct its failures of policing.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#197

Post by beng-nl »

InsideOutSanta wrote: post #170
quiet35 wrote: post #78

I see at least 2 issues with the physical punishment: - it will only make the bullies taking their revenge on vulnerable ones with even more cruelty. And they will plan it carefully to be hard/impossible to prove. It will lead to the escalation, not to the resolution - the power will be abused, it's inevitable. I would be so scared to be in a class where "teacher" has the power to harm me physically! (to clarify: I a…

Looking back at my own time in school, my primary bully already got beaten up by his own parents, which probably caused him to act out in school in the first place. I would not wish him to also get beaten by the school, and I do not believe that this would have helped me in any way.

Well said. I think we all shouldnt be too quick to assume that the problem starts with the person doing the bullying, nice and simple as that would be.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#198

Post by xienze »

throwawayk7h wrote: post #188

I've never understood the illiberal desire to treat boys and girls so differently. I'm glad I live in a country where sexism is illegal at a fundamental level -- this kind of law would be quickly struck down.

This sounds crazy, I know, but perhaps boys and girls are different.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#199

Post by stubish »

yowo wrote: post #192

I was hit with wooden 100cm ruler in middle school multiple times, it is painful for an hour or so but not emotionally damaging or anything, I'd be happy to meet that teacher today, I dropped out from high school eventually after I've been reducled and mocked at by a principal repeatedly as I didn't like to shave my facial hair, which I assume happen all the time and isn't as controversial. I kept dreaming of vandali…

An actual cane works more like a whip and can break skin and leave permanent scars.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#200

Post by JuniperMesos »

My biggest concern with this policy is students somehow manipulating the school authorities to get them to consider things that other students they dislike do to constitute bullying, and therefore cane them for it. Accusations of bullying - particularly cyberbullying, which is extremely subjective and also relatively easy to fake - can themselves be a form of bullying, particularly if they result in an authority figure taking a cane to your victim.
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