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The Quiet Ones

nytimes.com

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Re: The Quiet Ones

#351

Post by Muzza »

marbletiles wrote: post #334
Muzza wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, he should disregard them because as written they're sexist, and don't even have good methodology to try and stand in their defense. So... If he had a sufficiently good methodology which proved his assertions, they would cease to be sexist and you politically correct lot would approve of them? Somehow I doubt it.

Yes, if proven they would cease to be sexist, because they'd be discriminating based on facts, not based on his apparent prejudice. (However, since the conjecture does seem to come from a combination of sexism/ageism/confirmation bias, it would be surprising if they were proved.) BTW: Are you proud not to be in the politically correct "lot"? All it really amounts to is trying not to be unnecessarily hateful or demean…

> Yes, if proven they would cease to be sexist, because they'd be discriminating based on facts, not based on his apparent prejudice. (However, since the conjecture does seem to come from a combination of sexism/ageism/confirmation bias, it would be surprising if they were proved.)

I see. It's good to know that employers are now free to throw out all applications from Ethiopians, because of the fact that the average IQ in Ethiopia is 63.

> BTW: Are you proud not to be in the politically correct "lot"? All it really amounts to is trying not to be unnecessarily hateful or demeaning to one another.

Please. Political correctness amounts to much more than that.

Re: The Quiet Ones

#352

Post by Jamiecon »

bambax wrote: post #229
pg wrote: post #81

My life has been a search for quiet for as long as I can remember. I think the fundamental problem with noisy people is not that they're inconsiderate, but that they don't have any train of thought to interrupt, and they thus don't realize the havoc they're wreaking. When I was living in Providence, working on On Lisp , I told my loud but well-meaning neighbors that I was writing a hard computer book, and that made t…

> I think the fundamental problem with noisy people is (...) that they don't have any train of thought to interrupt I'm not sure I understand what you're saying: are you saying that noisy people don't think (or are stupid)? I'm a "quiet one" too, but I think noisy people are the opposite of "thinkless"; they appear to be afraid of their own mind and what it could tell them about the insignificance of the world in gen…

> I think the fundamental problem with noisy people is (...) that they don't have any train of thought to interrupt

I must say that this choice of words rather took me aback as well. The problem is, it's difficult to call someone breathtakingly arrogant (which was my first reaction) when they have so much to be arrogant about!

I'd love to see some more insight on this from pg.

Edit: It's since occurred to me that pg may have meant at that particular moment rather than lacking a train of thought in a general sense. If that's the case, my comment is unjustified - apologies.

Re: The Quiet Ones

#353

Post by chrislong »

jff wrote: post #344
chrislong wrote: post #337

i haven't read this entire thread, but i've read enough to say this: custom earplugs? noise cancelling headphones? white noise soundtracks? are you serious? the problems discussed here took place in a space specifically designated for quiet. why can't people make an effort to comply? if you want to make noise, go somewhere else. i literally cannot believe what i'm reading here. shaddap!!!! this brings to mind the BWC…

Dear Sir, I wish to protest the previous letter, which makes all people who type WORDS in CAPITALS seem INSANE. Many of my friends type like this, and only a few of them are RANTING LUNATICS. Yours sincerely, Major Charles Smith, Deceased (Mrs.)

point (well) taken. edits have been made. thanks.

Re: The Quiet Ones

#354

Post by qq66 »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #80

Is the "Quiet Car" really as intellectual as Kreider makes it out to be? Is it really full of readers and intellectualists, people that take pride in knowledge and are aloof from the mundane? This is an interesting situation: put the people you're most likely to enjoy a good, thought-provoking, intellectual, factually-backed, philosophical conversation in a car together... where they take a vow of silence for the dur…

No, the "Quiet Car" is not as "intellectual" as Kreider makes it out to be. Some people in the Quiet Car are there to get into hypercivil discussions in the Quiet Car, and others are there to write New York Times colums about this experience. But there are other people there who are just sleeping.

Re: The Quiet Ones

#355

Post by philwelch »

tehayj wrote: post #237
bambax wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the fundamental problem with noisy people is (...) that they don't have any train of thought to interrupt I'm not sure I understand what you're saying: are you saying that noisy people don't think (or are stupid)? I'm a "quiet one" too, but I think noisy people are the opposite of "thinkless"; they appear to be afraid of their own mind and what it could tell them about the insignificance of the world in gen…

Many people are addicted to stimuli in whatever form because they do not want to be left alone with their thoughts. Some just turn on the TV whenever they are alone, some have to socialize and can't stand being alone, others do drugs. Time alone in the nature or meditation is quite the opposite and something I would wish those stimuli seeker would experience more often.

Some drug users are meditative and introspective and take drugs specifically for that purpose. Depends on the drug, though.

Re: The Quiet Ones

#356

Post by marbletiles »

Muzza wrote: post #351
marbletiles wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if proven they would cease to be sexist, because they'd be discriminating based on facts, not based on his apparent prejudice. (However, since the conjecture does seem to come from a combination of sexism/ageism/confirmation bias, it would be surprising if they were proved.) BTW: Are you proud not to be in the politically correct "lot"? All it really amounts to is trying not to be unnecessarily hateful or demean…

> Yes, if proven they would cease to be sexist, because they'd be discriminating based on facts, not based on his apparent prejudice. (However, since the conjecture does seem to come from a combination of sexism/ageism/confirmation bias, it would be surprising if they were proved.) I see. It's good to know that employers are now free to throw out all applications from Ethiopians, because of the fact that the average…

Logic fail. But there is a difference between your (uncited) claim and "all Ethiopians I've met are thick", no?

Re: The Quiet Ones

#357

Post by philwelch »

jseliger wrote: post #155
derekp7 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Are they really worth $12,580? I hate to be the other obnoxious guy that responds to the self proclaimed obnoxious guy, but I see the quite a bit lately, even paraded in XKCD. Is there a significant group of people that absolutely abhors all rhetorical figures of speech? Or is it only specific ones, such as metaphors and hyperbole, with simile being mostly OK? Just curious.

The deeper I get into writing, and what it means to write well, the harder it is. Reading Martin Amis's The War Against Cliche was a particularly pernicious moment for me. So was Lakoff and Johnson's Metaphors We Live By . I think the question is this: does a rhetorical figure of speech help the reader or writer see the things being compared or figurized in a new way? If the answer is no, then perhaps we should look…

Orwell, "Politics and the English Language", 1946:

"By using stale metaphors, similes, and idioms, you save much mental effort, at the cost of leaving your meaning vague, not only for your reader but for yourself. This is the significance of mixed metaphors. The sole aim of a metaphor is to call up a visual image. When these images clash -- as in The Fascist octopus has sung its swan song, the jackboot is thrown into the melting pot -- it can be taken as certain that the writer is not seeing a mental image of the objects he is naming; in other words he is not really thinking. "

"Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print."

Re: The Quiet Ones

#358

Post by TheAmazingIdiot »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #322
eshvk wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can filter out 10% of the noise at home, because if my wife is talking or our cats are meowing, it's almost certainly directed at me. IMO the only advantage of working from home is that you can control all those free variables that make you distracted: E.g. Get a quiet study where you tell your wife, cat(s) etc that you cannot/will not be distracted during work hours. Doing that at work can be tried but depending…

> E.g. Get a quiet study where you tell your wife, cat(s) etc that you cannot/will not be distracted during work hours. Well, sojacques already addressed the cat point, so they only thing I have to add is that I live in Manhattan, in a very spacious place by our standards, but one that doesn't really come with a study - not unless I wanted to tear down everything in the closet, toss my wife's things into a box, and h…

No no no, you have it all wrong. You clean out the closet and all, then you put the cat AND the wife in there so you can work outside...

Re: The Quiet Ones

#359

Post by shortlived »

SiVal wrote: post #272
thaumaturgy wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep late hours in part because, once everyone else goes to bed -- not just housemates but my entire town -- everything becomes still and quiet, and in that stillness I'm finally able to think more deeply, more clearly, about anything. You've probably already had your fill of argument for the day, but I think that assuming that noisy people don't have a train of thought to interrupt is a little bit uncharitable. (I…

I'm with pg here on the endless search for silence as well as your use of late nights to find it. I have sound-blocking ear muffs scattered all over the house and in two backpacks for when I'm studying on campus at Stanford, because at Stanford "quiet study area" seems to be an oxymoron. Studying, like everything at Stanford, is a social event. One disturbing phenomenon I've discovered: When I use these ear muffs to…

    When I was living in Providence,
An area specifically designed for work or study should be a quiet space, but the example given by PG is regarding his living quarters. I personally don't want to live in a library.

Re: The Quiet Ones

#360

Post by niels_olson »

Has anyone noticed even the libraries are not immune to cellphones? Someone should start selling phone booths to libraries: people who need to take a call can use the booth.

I have carried ear plugs with me for years (two fresh pairs in a small pill bottle, in my briefcase). In a moment of sleep-deprived delerium in an airport, I bought the Bose QC-15s. I love them. I am a huge fan of instrumental music. We have an offer in on a house one bedroom smaller than our current rental, which is perfect: I have an excuse to get a writer's shed.

I would pay a membership fee to anyone who could build a Quiet Car Hacker Space within 5 miles of my house. QCHS: where are you?

But seriously: phone booths in libraries: it's brilliant. Somebody: do it!

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