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AI slop is killing online communities

rmoff.net

321–330 of 781 posts

Re: AI slop is killing online communities

#321

The balance is so far out of whack with LLM's now in online communities. People crave human interaction with like minded individuals, and whoever figures out how to give authentic online experiences is going to be successful. Maybe small communities need to come back, where you build credibility slowly. Why does every site have to be a monstrosity that wants to build a hundred million users to IPO. It just attracts t…

> People crave human interaction with like minded individuals

I don’t think they crave it enough to make a difference. Even before AI slop, Reddit had made successive changes that led to much less of a feeling of interaction with real, authentic humans who could become your buddies. The UI de-emphasized usernames and hid the sidebars where subreddits could have their own distinct community atmosphere. I hear that now on comment threads, Reddit will even hide a decent number of posts from other users, so that a poster may well be talking into the void.

It is on old-school fora that one can get a sense of actual interaction: with avatars and other personalized touches it’s easy to gradually learn who is who, and there is a culture of longform text where you can actually get a sense of other people’s personalities. But how many people under the age of 35 or 40 are joining those fora that survive? Give people a choice, and it turns out they prefer the dopamine hits of engagement-maximizing commercial platforms, and the smartphone as the default (or sole) interface to the internet with all the death of nuance that spells.

Re: AI slop is killing online communities

#322
post #270
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without either proof of identity or attestation through a web of trust. Let's put aside the idea whether it will be the end of all privacy as we know it (I'm not sure if I personally think it's a good idea), but isn't Sam Altman's World eye ID thing supposed to do that? ( https://world.org ). How does it work (like OpenId)? Do I have an orb on my desk, or some sort of phone app? I still want to use my desktop to lo…

this eye thing will never work. people in general are realizing the last people we should trust with our personal stuff are tech bro billionaires. they’ve broken trust too many times. even worse many of them are just plain vocal about their disdain for people in general. at least from what i’m seeing, people are starting to walk away from online at an increasing rate so i definitely don’t see widespread adoption of h…

“If McDonald’s offered three free Big Macs for a DNA sample, there would be lines around the block.” - Bruce

I have no idea about the eye thing taking off. But I think your comment is very HN and a bit out-of-touch with regular people. What "you're seeing" is a bubble and not representative of the general population. The eye thing is a slow frog boil and it will be commonplace before you can blink.

Re: AI slop is killing online communities

#323

I run a niche creative community, and we outlawed AI-generated content in 2022 as it was easy to see how corrosive it would be to the community. It hasn't been easy. We ban fake AI accounts daily and shrug off around 600 AI content creator accounts monthly. It's a lot of work, extra work that wasn't needed before AI content came around, and of course, that is an extra cost. I fear losing the battle.

What about charging $1 or $5 for an account? Seems like you could stem the tide pretty easily with something like that.

Or applying for an account could involve sending a handwritten letter by post.

Re: AI slop is killing online communities

#324

I have largely written Reddit off and no longer visit it after an experiment I did where I had an agent karma farm for me and do some covert advertising. As I went through the posts it wrote I realized that as a reader I would have NO idea that these were just written by a computer. Many many people (or other bots) had full on conversations with it and it scared me a bit. I am not quite there with Hacker News but I d…

For a while there were a lot of posts from people experimenting with ChatGPT to write anger bait posts on Reddit where they would later edit the post to say it was fake, written by ChatGPT.

I assume they thought they'd be teaching people a lesson by making them feel foolish for responding to AI stories, most of which were too fake to be believable.

However it did not matter. The posts remained popular and continued to bring in comments even after the admission that they were fake. In advice subreddits, commenters continue to give advice on the situation. Some comments would say they saw the notice that it was fake but continue arguing about it anyway.

This makes a feature of Reddit very clear: The truthiness of a post doesn't matter. The active commenter base on popular subreddits just wants something to discuss and, usually, be angry about.

In retrospect it's obvious given that misinfo posts were the easiest way to karma farm for years even before AI.

Re: AI slop is killing online communities

#325

I have largely written Reddit off and no longer visit it after an experiment I did where I had an agent karma farm for me and do some covert advertising. As I went through the posts it wrote I realized that as a reader I would have NO idea that these were just written by a computer. Many many people (or other bots) had full on conversations with it and it scared me a bit. I am not quite there with Hacker News but I d…

There was a post today that Google introduced unbreakable capture that required unrooted phone to pass its QR code.

We may end up with things like that…

Re: AI slop is killing online communities

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that Reddit leadership, which insulted, hobbled, and wrote off its mods and power users (destroying projects like /r/BotDefense) while doing little to crack down on the proliferation of bot repost content, had a major role in encouraging this. They might even like it better this way -- lots of extra fake engagement boosting traffic stats without messy human drama, which they can then ironically sell back to…

Let's never forget the summer of 2023 when Reddit forceably removed mods from many major communities and replaced them with corporate shills. That was a major loss of dedicated people who cared more for their communities than Spez's pocket book.

The internet is rather trending in that direction, isn't it? Youtube got rid of downvotes and apparently upload dates, which seems like an easier way to trick people into ads. And Reddit, like you said

If these platforms had to listen to "their customers" (here comes the inevitable comment about how users aren't customers; yes, I know)? They'd all be fired. They'd have to find a new job. They all act in incredibly insulting ways with a too big to fail attitude

Re: AI slop is killing online communities

#327
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's going to effectively kill public chat communities without either proof of identity or attestation through a web of trust. Or rather turn them into little better than comment sections on news sites; thriving but worthless. I'm active in a number of online communities that are doing just fine but the difference is those all involve ongoing relationships, built over time and with engagement across multiple…

Note that "attestation through a web of trust" means something like needing an invite from an existing user. It doesn't have to mean mass surveillance.

Then how can you have a community that is welcoming to people who are not part of the ingroup?

I want to create a community for immigrants. How would I make it welcoming to recent immigrants for whom no one can vouch?

A web of trust is a wonderful tool, but it's exclusive by design. This is a problem for some communities, even though it makes others much better.

Re: AI slop is killing online communities

#328

There are "nice", "polite" slop enthusiasts. The ones who insist they have taste and tact. They would never post bad slop, recklessly, only the very highest-quality human-refined, curated slop. Not really slop at all, they would argue, because they gave it a careful review before posting it. They insist there's a very important difference between this premium slop and the nasty kind, and that low-quality human-author…

I usually type 5000 words researching for a 500 word output. It's not "write me an article on X", it's 99% my own ideas, but worded and structured and polished a bit. But I don't post them here. They are on my blog.

"It's not X, it's Y"

Re: AI slop is killing online communities

#329

Like many modern woes, it’s a problem of trust. The baseline level of trust in an online interaction has been eroded significantly by LLMs. The question is, how can we reverse this trend and increase trust? I have a sneaking suspicion that it would help enormously if the stock prices of the largest companies in the world were not tied to how effective they are at hijacking as much of humanity’s time and attention as…

I think what could work is requiring users to prove their authenticity and uniqueness using a national ID of some sort. It would be bad for privacy, no doubt, but it surely would work. But the users' actual names should not be displayed.

Re: AI slop is killing online communities

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I left multiple online communities because the slop and the slop users were unbearable. I use ai okay. I think it's useful. But people who dove hard into this stuff treat all text on their screen like it's a chat bot and not a person. "Rewrite this code using the new API" "excuse me?" "Can you do it I need it right now chatgpt won't compile!" "Show me your code please" provides the biggest pile of dookie ever "hey ca…

I've seen people like this 15+ years ago on #learnprogramming on Freenode, I'm guessing LLMs just tend to validate that behavior instead.

Mostly on IRC people either learned or got told to leave. There was significant pushback on people just looking for someone else to do their homework.

AIs have changed the feedback loop here such that these approaches are rewarded and even lauded.

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