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Virtual violin produces realistic sounds

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Re: Virtual violin produces realistic sounds

#71

Post by rendaw »

Fraterkes wrote: post #49
pierrec wrote: post #39

In this area of research, there's this classic trap that many fall into (including myself, many times). You focus on modeling things like the vibrating string, the resonant body, etc. to perfection. But it still sounds, uh, not great, because the more important and difficult part is modeling detailed control and the human/instrument interface. Air fluctuations around the violin sound like a fun experiment, but I don'…

The point of this research doesn't seem to be to generate a nice sounding digital instrument, but to give violin makers a rough idea of what the instrument will sound like for different shapes / materials. This is useful for comparing designs, even if you don't simulate a human performance with complete fidelity. So I don't know if your criticism makes much sense.

How useful is it though if it doesn't resemble what it will sound like when actually played? IIUC the difference between this and a human playing is to some degree subtle. But the audio difference between different violin designs will also be subtle.

Re: Virtual violin produces realistic sounds

#72

Post by Slow_Hand »

analog31 wrote: post #56
pierrec wrote: post #39

In this area of research, there's this classic trap that many fall into (including myself, many times). You focus on modeling things like the vibrating string, the resonant body, etc. to perfection. But it still sounds, uh, not great, because the more important and difficult part is modeling detailed control and the human/instrument interface. Air fluctuations around the violin sound like a fun experiment, but I don'…

I'm a working jazz bassist. Plucking a string is an art unto itself. What struck me about the clip was it sounded like the strings were plucked by something other than a finger.

Yeah. It sounds more like a dulcimer (hammered). If someone asked me to guess the instrument violin would not have been my first guess.

Re: Virtual violin produces realistic sounds

#73

Post by saidnooneever »

pierrec wrote: post #39

In this area of research, there's this classic trap that many fall into (including myself, many times). You focus on modeling things like the vibrating string, the resonant body, etc. to perfection. But it still sounds, uh, not great, because the more important and difficult part is modeling detailed control and the human/instrument interface. Air fluctuations around the violin sound like a fun experiment, but I don'…

i think its kind of funny, simulating this must be incredibly tedious while there are many songs with good fake violins...

you mention a few details theres so many more if you think about it..the human-instrument interaction has all sorts of imperfections.

tension in shoulders can make u bend the neck a bit. tension in fingers too much might pull out of tune. pushing not 100% straight along the bow might shift it sideways a bit changing how it crosses strings. Then ofc at what position is the bow on the strings (closer/futher from bridge).

humans are not perfect machines but in those imperfection lies the beauty. A perfectly played instrument is played by a human and has this 'humanization' across all areas where human and instrument and music itself interact imho.

if you produce music digitally this instantly will show, because all your instruments will sound flat and boring if you dont humanize.

Re: Virtual violin produces realistic sounds

#74

Post by saidnooneever »

shiandow wrote: post #43
pierrec wrote: post #39

In this area of research, there's this classic trap that many fall into (including myself, many times). You focus on modeling things like the vibrating string, the resonant body, etc. to perfection. But it still sounds, uh, not great, because the more important and difficult part is modeling detailed control and the human/instrument interface. Air fluctuations around the violin sound like a fun experiment, but I don'…

Put differently, it takes years of practice to get a decent sound out of a real violin. If your model doesn't sound like someone's strangling a cat then it's probably not realistic.

its not _that_ hard -_-. just that a lot of music on violin played solo is acquired taste... just like many flutes, or drums.

the real sound comes when its played with other instruments in concert. it doesnt need years of practice it needs patience the right setting and an extra joint on ur pinky :p

Re: Virtual violin produces realistic sounds

#75

Post by shiandow »

saidnooneever wrote: post #74
shiandow wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put differently, it takes years of practice to get a decent sound out of a real violin. If your model doesn't sound like someone's strangling a cat then it's probably not realistic.

its not _that_ hard -_-. just that a lot of music on violin played solo is acquired taste... just like many flutes, or drums. the real sound comes when its played with other instruments in concert. it doesnt need years of practice it needs patience the right setting and an extra joint on ur pinky :p

My experience may be a bit biased by having to listen to children attempting to learn the instrument.

Re: Virtual violin produces realistic sounds

#76

Post by saghm »

saidnooneever wrote: post #74
shiandow wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put differently, it takes years of practice to get a decent sound out of a real violin. If your model doesn't sound like someone's strangling a cat then it's probably not realistic.

its not _that_ hard -_-. just that a lot of music on violin played solo is acquired taste... just like many flutes, or drums. the real sound comes when its played with other instruments in concert. it doesnt need years of practice it needs patience the right setting and an extra joint on ur pinky :p

I think it's hard in comparison to non-bowed string instruments. Even someone on their first day playing a guitar can pluck a single open string and not have it sound terrible, but getting a decent tone when bowing an open string on a violin is something that might take months for someone to do even sometimes.

Re: Virtual violin produces realistic sounds

#77

Post by kashunstva »

saidnooneever wrote: post #74
shiandow wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put differently, it takes years of practice to get a decent sound out of a real violin. If your model doesn't sound like someone's strangling a cat then it's probably not realistic.

its not _that_ hard -_-. just that a lot of music on violin played solo is acquired taste... just like many flutes, or drums. the real sound comes when its played with other instruments in concert. it doesnt need years of practice it needs patience the right setting and an extra joint on ur pinky :p

> it doesnt need years of practice

It absolutely requires years of practice to play the violin at an expert level. This is well documented.

> the real sound comes when its played with other instruments in concert

So in the violin repertoire, the Bach sonatas and partitas for unaccompanied violin, the Ysaÿe sonatas and the Paganini caprices are what, not real?

Re: Virtual violin produces realistic sounds

#78

Post by _s_a_m_ »

Sorry but that quote about know how the sound changes before carving is just straight up student bullshit.

That's not how building a violin works, it is not a physics problem, it is material matter, it is a taste matter, it is a matter of adapting to material what you have, ...

Re: Virtual violin produces realistic sounds

#79

Post by _s_a_m_ »

pierrec wrote: post #39

In this area of research, there's this classic trap that many fall into (including myself, many times). You focus on modeling things like the vibrating string, the resonant body, etc. to perfection. But it still sounds, uh, not great, because the more important and difficult part is modeling detailed control and the human/instrument interface. Air fluctuations around the violin sound like a fun experiment, but I don'…

it's just childish ridiculous overselling, exactly the type of BS I expect from uneducated technologists. We see this BS all the time on HN.
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