Live data from Hacker News

Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

simonwillison.net

871–880 of 958 posts

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#871
post #826
post #772

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, now do that for 369,293 stars, 76,193 forks, 138 releases and 2,133 contributors. I expect there is no number I could bring up here that won't be instantly shot down as telling "precisely nothing". My mistake for bringing up any numbers at all. OpenClaw is a good example of a completely new project written using coding agents that made a significant impression on the world and would not have been built without th…

> OK, now do that for 369,293 stars, 76,193 forks, 138 releases and 2,133 contributors. You're counting forks and stars as code metrics now? Oy. Look, those aren't nothing -- they're a decent enough proxy for popularity -- but they aren't a rebuttal to the original comment. (The other day some LLM dudebro got a bajillion stars on GH for his vibe-coded hot mess of a repo that sets three environment variables. I should…

I stand by what I said. OpenClaw proved that "personal digital agents" are a category with a huge amount of demand, to the point that people will jump through major hoops and completely ignore the colossal security risks involved in adopting that software.

It's spawned dozens of imitations, some of which are looking quite credible.

Anthropic themselves have been cloning OpenClaw features.

I get that it's not cool to say "OpenClaw is significant and influential" but I truly believe that it is.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#872

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the trick is that if / when you can define "good code" in a deterministic manner, then the LLM can also deliver "good code". But if it's just based on feels, then of course it can't do it because it's not a mind reading machine.

Once you’ve done the work to deterministically define your system; you’re not vibe coding anymore. You’re officially an engineer who cares about the consistency and robustness of your product, not just its superficial outcomes.

So it's Vibe Engineering then? :)

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#873
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30 years down the line a human will wake up in his climate controlled bed in an idyllic large scale people-zoo, think about what information he wants, and immediately his 900TB ferroelectric compute-in-memory exobrain will read his thoughts via his brain-computer-interface, and render a custom 3d visualization of that information floating in front of him. There will be no separate code stage, just neural rendering of…

> custom 3d visualization of that information floating in front of him. Eh, what a waste. Can't we just stimulate the optic nerve? Or better yet, whatever region of the brain is responsible for me being able to 'see' anything? And perhaps we can finally get smell-o-vision too.

I was hoping that the visuals going through the BCI also was implied since I didn't indicate any other new technology for holograms.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#874
It doesn't matter if you specify system behavior in code, as a LLM conversation, agent instructions, or UML. In all cases you need to be able to translate business needs into very specific computer behavior. This isn't something a layperson can do. But it democratized software development to all who can, but can't write code.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#875
post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or at least, aware that this argument continues to be made with tenuous evidence and anecdotes. And yet, people are being more productive (actually productive) with AI. Release schedules are increasing, bugs are getting fixed faster, security issues identified and patched sooner, so on and so forth. I’m not denying (at all) that unused skills languish. I take issue with AI being characterized as a magic eraser that m…

> this argument continues to be made with tenuous evidence and anecdotes. The linked Wikipedia page has plenty of evidence and studies and you can find plenty more with a basic web search. This is not something someone just made up; if you don’t know there are a multitude of studies on the harms of social media, you haven’t looked at all. Which is fine, it’s our prerogative to not search for information, but don’t tu…

[flagged]

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#876
post #401
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What will happen when AI companies increase the price of tokens? The code produced will only be understandable by AI. You could use locally hosted LLMs, but it won't be as performant as AI run by big guys. And there is nothing stopping greedy companies implementing some ridiculous pattern that only their model can reasonably work with. So what you'll do in situation when you can't understand "your" codebase and you h…

Eventually I would bet on ai using its own non human readable languages (brains?) to program in to reduce overhead. It will be a black box, and the code will be generated just in time by ai for each api request

If the language is unreadable for humans, we really can't trust that it does what it claims to do, except by testing. This requires more trust in the system than is warranted IMO. You can never be sure that there's no "sleeper" logic waiting to get activated. See "Reflections on Trusting Trust" by Ken Thompson. If we build systems that start relying on opaque mechanisms, it seems to be only a matter of time before things start behaving in ways contrary to what their authors intended, with no clear way to stop it other than hitting the power button, if that's even possible at that point.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#877
post #787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do all what we can as individuals, but it's not enough. The obesity crisis is going unabated except GLP-1 drugs to clean up the mess.

we can also apply regulations but they are also not enough, otherwise people wouldn't OD on controlled substances. At one point the individual needs to start taking responsibility for their actions.

And the unscrupulous purveyors of addictive products should likewise take responsibility for their actions. How often do you see that happen, though?

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#878
post #359
post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t understand this. The first thing I do with new agent driven project is set up quality checks. Linters, test frameworks, static analysis, etc… Whatever I would expect a developer to do, I would expect an agent to do. All implementation has to go through build success and mixed agent reviews before moving on. I might not do this with initial research/throwaway prototype, but once I know what direction to go and…

> The first thing I do with new agent driven project is set up quality checks. Linters, test frameworks, static analysis, etc I do this too, but then I sit and observe how agent gets very creative by going around all of these layers just to get to the finish line faster. Say, for example, if I needlessly pass a mutable reference and the linter screams at me, I know it's either linter is wrong in this case, or I shoul…

You have to not "stress" the agents out over testing. If a gate is no failing tests they cheat. If the gate is triage failing tests, quantify risk of failing test, prioritize in next work cycles... agents behave amazingly better at cheating tests.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#879
> responsible use of AI to write code

You have no clue what went into the training data or how much of the output is covered by someone else's copyright. To pretend this is "responsible" is ridiculous.

Then you go on to use lines of code per day as a meaningful metric without any evidence that it has any consequence whatsoever.

Finally you don't mention profitability once.

What are we even doing here? Pretending? Why?

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#880
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"many engineers have not yet tried things that became feasible over the last months" I have heard this statement every single day for 2 years and yet we still have no companies compressing 10 years into 1 year thus exploding past all the incumbents who don't "get it".

If you want an example of a project that condensed 5 years into 6 months and exploded past the competition I suggest looking at OpenClaw. The first line of code was written on November 25th. It achieved adoption in the "personal agents" space that far exceeded the other companies that had tried the same thing. (Whether or not you trust the quality of the software you can't deny the impact it had in such a short time.…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN