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Programming Still Sucks

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Re: Programming Still Sucks

#241

Post by FrustratedMonky »

_pdp_ wrote: post #86

The so called AI job loses are not due to AI. I don't think there is anyone out there to argue otherwise. In a year but probably sooner, when software systems start collapsing, and they will, hiring in tech sector will skyrocket. In fact, I don't believe the world have enough developers to backfill for the AI deficiencies. To me the math is obvious. Assuming humans touch a 1% of all software systems created, somethin…

>"I don't think there is anyone out there to argue otherwise."

Meanwhile, millions are arguing otherwise.

Re: Programming Still Sucks

#242

Post by FrustratedMonky »

Think this is very good article, and good to highlight with a link to an older one.

The Moloch article from Scott Alexander. Covers the broader themes.

Software just seemed immune from it for a couple decades, but Moloch caught up to it.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/

Re: Programming Still Sucks

#243

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

larodi wrote: post #199
maweki wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Society doesn't owe me over $500k/year No it doesn't. But as a human being, you and everybody still deserves a decent living. And our current system clearly does not provide that for a lot of people.

How come is anyone "entitled" to a decent living? I don't think this holds evolutionary, nor from historical perspective. It is commendable for a person to want to think that everyone deserves it, but I don't see it follow from anything or manifest in general in a fair way. There are plenty of examples that people are very likely going to be deprived of even whatever they deserved by means of struggling to get it.

> I don't think this holds evolutionary

Sure it does. Our species is social, meaning we form societies for evolutionary success. Both of us being members of that society, it is in my interest to see your child survive. It is a tragedy to think your child may not survive because human greed prevents them from accessing resources we have in abundance.

The opposite perspective is anti-social in a literal way: the greedy cannot use all of the resources, can't eat all of the food; they want control so you can't have it without their permission. You are entitled to eat, seeing as we have more than enough to feed you. That others think you are not is disagreeable, to put it mildly.

Re: Programming Still Sucks

#244

Post by canelonesdeverd »

larodi wrote: post #199
maweki wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Society doesn't owe me over $500k/year No it doesn't. But as a human being, you and everybody still deserves a decent living. And our current system clearly does not provide that for a lot of people.

How come is anyone "entitled" to a decent living? I don't think this holds evolutionary, nor from historical perspective. It is commendable for a person to want to think that everyone deserves it, but I don't see it follow from anything or manifest in general in a fair way. There are plenty of examples that people are very likely going to be deprived of even whatever they deserved by means of struggling to get it.

> How come is anyone "entitled" to a decent living?

kind of the point of living in a civilized society i reckon

Re: Programming Still Sucks

#245

Post by Izkata »

bluegatty wrote: post #94
nchagnet wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe 'journalism' wasn't the best suggestion by the OP but I have to disagree with the rest of your message. It may be a rant, or less pejoratively it may be a cry for help of someone seeing their industry's future, but I can't accept that it's not well written. When is the last time you opened an HN comment section and the main comment was that people enjoyed the writing quality? Maybe it says more about what we us…

I commented only because I didn't think it was particularly well written, and I found the threaD to be full of people commenting on how well written it was. It's highly personalized and interesting, but I wouldn't call it well written. As a personal bit of art - 'thumbs up', but anything else is overstated. But more appropriately, the nihilism on this thread is unhinged. "seeing their industry's future" ??? I'm seein…

I read it as a comment on how bad journalism is nowadays, with the extensive prose instead of getting to the point.

Re: Programming Still Sucks

#246

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

socalgal2 wrote: post #81
fooqux wrote: post #27

> AI didn't take our jobs. Greed did. Same greed that moved factories to Bangladesh and keeps slaves in cobalt mines in the Congo, wearing a new mask. Tell the nephew to do something else. Anything. It won't save him either, but at least he won't have to pretend the thing destroying his life is a robot. This hit me hard. This article is art. I think I need to sleep on this and read it again in the morning.

Greed does not take your jobs, progress does. People don’t hand wash clothing for money because we have machines to do that now. We don’t need people delivering news papers because the news is delivered digitally. AI is no different. “IF” your job can be automated away or made more efficient it will. That might not be a benefit for your but it’s a benefit to society at large Note: the above is not claiming AI or LLM…

> Note: the above is not claiming AI or LLM can do these jobs. it’s claiming “IF” they can then they will. No greed required

"No greed required" doesn't seem accurate. One would not use an AI to do the job instead of a human, except for the motivation that they would have more at the end of the day.

Re: Programming Still Sucks

#248

Post by munksbeer »

coldtea wrote: post #231
munksbeer wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, recency bias.

Nope, raw "actually good balance of stuff I like and stuff I don't like in those decades" pragmatism. I could not give less fucks for having AI and smartphones and most other stuff, including all the fancy new medical procedures which are barely incremental. Fridges, basic 90s-style internet and mini-skirts and welfare, and cheap housing, and jobs-a-plenty, more affordable healthcare, and the lifestyle, I can use jus…

The thing is, the option you want is available today. There are communities all around the world that live much simpler lives. Some just because that is how they are, others because they've formed communities to escape all the things you don't like.

Genuine question, have you ever investigated these options? If so, why did you dismiss them?

Re: Programming Still Sucks

#249

Post by stevenlangbroek »

pona-a wrote: post #232
stevenlangbroek wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have bad news for you...

Believe me or not, that's good news for me. I actually really enjoyed your writing, and I'm glad that feeling wasn't misplaced. I'm sorry if my remarks came across as mean-spirited...

Nothing to apologize for!

Re: Programming Still Sucks

#250

Post by justin66 »

Waterluvian wrote: post #50

I’m trying to piece together a thought. Is it right if my employer wants to “own” the gain in productivity from these tools? I’m being paid the same. I’m still doing 40 hours. The huge gains in productivity are not mine to enjoy, it seems.

https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/
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