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The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

harpers.org

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Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#121
post #56

I have trouble predicting how public sentiment will evolve over time. I'm not that young, and still and the last 10 years have left me with an absolutely blistering distrust of the 70+ crowd on any matter pertaining to positions of authority. I'd like to see ~67 and ~72 become the other 18 and 21: hard lines beyond which the law progressively rescinds the presumption of total competence. It's not a pretty solution. T…

I completely agree. With so many high profile cases of people suffering from some form of dementia being elected to important offices (McConnell and Feinstein; Biden and Trump), it's clear that the intended electoral mechanism isn't working to replace people who are not fit to serve. Name recognition & incumbency advantage are just too strong to allow the right thing to happen.

The version of the fix that I like is, if you would be 65 or older on the day you would begin holding the office, you are ineligible to be in the election or the appointment process. This gives some room for acknowledging that there isn't a clear cut-off where one immediately becomes unfit to serve. If you're a healthy 64, you can serve all the way to 70 for an office with a lengthy term; but if you're going soft at 65, then you don't need to make the difficult decision of whether or not to run. The decision has been made for you, way ahead of time, and you can make plans to retire and support a successor, avoiding a really nasty, personal primary process.

This would have nicely avoided Biden's awkward "will he, won't he" decision that led to the 2024 disaster we're still suffering from. Feinstein & McConnell would have retired well before their brains transformed into cottage cheese, turning them into jokes and destroying whatever legacies they worked to build. It's better for everyone.

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#122
post #3
post #2

[flagged]

That's just mandatory voting. The fine for not voting in Australia is about $30. This is...nothing in the grand scheme of things. But it's enough. And you don't even have to vote: you have to turn up, that's it.

Does Australia perform better?

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#123

This is likely the worst issue humanity will be facing over the next 50 years, even more than climate change. An increasingly old demographic will sabatoge the future of humanity as they drain enormous resources and abuse democratic processes to reroute resources to their preservation of life over young people and familes. Young people and families will choke to death under the strain of elders who demand unlimited s…

I don’t know why people downvoted this because it is obviously correct. In a democracy you have to buy the votes of the largest constituency with other people’s money, which in this case is the boomers votes with the younger generations money. This will continue until nothing is left. This already happened with the triple pension lock in GB, mathematically ensuring the bankruptcy of the state.

The B-word - boomer - is what it is about. The government has always been about them, well, at least since WW2, or WW Eleven as one of the few youthful members of Congress would have it.

In the UK and elsewhere in Europe we had free education for the boomers, with benefits for them in the holidays. But they hoisted the ladder up after them. Final salary pensions, boomers had that, but they deprived others of getting the same perk. The same with healthcare and everything the state does, it was all designed for boomers.

The boomers once had people waving CND and Peace signs in their midst, however, after 9/11 the boomers found themselves back in their happy space of having an external enemy, the semi-fictional 'al-qaeda' mercenaries that none of them ever met. Their younger selves would not have been clamouring for war, but, after the planes hit the towers, they were just gagging to support more and more bombing, all in their name.

The boomers paid for the nukes, the planes to deliver them and the entire war machine, whilst pricing their kids out of the housing market whilst chastising their own kids with 'back in our day we had nothing and had to work harder than you with your latte and iphone'. We all know the deal.

The problem is not just a few geriatrics in power, which societies have had problems with ever since the first king, it is bigger than that, it is the boomers that do not care about anything other than their selfish world view, that can't be argued with because you can't 'cheek your elders'.

The problem with the boomers is that many of their children honestly believe they can mimic the boomer life, where you knuckle down and pay for that mortgage like they did and where you spew toxic emissions everywhere you go, because boomers are entirely car dependent.

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go look at the demographics of the last election and then tell me which groups shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Hey, I hear you, but the age cutoff could also be on holding office. As someone just hitting the 60 yr old mark, and looking at my parents who are still pretty sharp in their late 80s, -- so definitely talking about myself and my capacity here, No-one over 70 has any business in a high ranking government office. The mental flexibility isn't there. Which means no one over 66 should be allowed to run office (yes, I kno…

It’s not just mental ability it’s a set of perverse incentives: the old robbing the future of the young, instead of planting trees whose shade the old will never personally enjoy.

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Equity? You mean equality (and that's still about rights, not pay.) Equity is just a stake in the outcome at all.

Equity in this context usually refers to the concept of Social Equity, which is interested in equality of outcome

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_equity

The extent to which equality of outcome is pursued and for which groups are traditionally factors, but the overarching idea is in pursuit of equality of outcome.

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#126
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think we're talking about different things then. Nobody is asking for equal result. Equity means sharing the rewards of productivity, instead of allowing a group of people who do nothing get rich off of other people's hard work. That's fair. Doing good work should be rewarded!

> Nobody is asking for equal result.

Pursuing some level of equality of outcomes has been a core concept in social equity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_equity

Social equality is focused around equality of opportunity. Social equity is about pursuing equality of outcome, generally by allocating resources and services unequally to give groups perceived as having historical disadvantages an extra boost.

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#127

Term limits would fix it

Term limits are perhaps the dumbest idea that ever plagued democracy. The idea of mandatory firing your most qualified, experienced employees in an incredibly difficult job that can only be learned with on-the-job experience is literally insane. If not for term limits, the US would have had Obama in the presidency this entire time instead of the absolute garbage scraps that were left over when they fired the only per…

Term limits encourage the development of robust laws, systems and institutions which provide a far more stable basis for running a society than having power structures that rely on the brilliance of an individual or individuals. Without terms limits or the like (and there are countless examples not just in history but currently around the world), individuals in power are motivated mostly to preserve that power and have less incentive to work on improvements that will outlast them.

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Equality: starting out at the same position, for example we have equal rights under the law Equity: winding up at the same position, for example when everybody in a race wins the same medal, regardless of how hard they trained or how talented they are. An apocryphal story about equity: https://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html

There's no definition of equity that I can find that returns that result so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[deleted]

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#129

Old people are organized and more social. I see it in my community. They run the newsletters and they host community events. "Oh that's because they're retired!" No, many of them are not. Many still work. I want the gerontocracy to end, but I'm also worried what takes its place. Gen Xers like me seem to lack some of the abilities present in our older generations. We'll probably be more equitable and fair, but will we…

Organization is a skill that can be passed on, and to the degree that old people are still doing it themselves they’re depriving us of opportunities to learn and to practice and to benefit from their experience. That’s why we’re not as good at it.

> and to the degree that old people are still doing it themselves they’re depriving us of opportunities to learn and to practice and to benefit from their experience.

Young people’s ability and motivation to organize and communicate is not dependent on anything other than themselves choosing to do it and get involved

> That’s why we’re not as good at it.

If you continue to believe that you’re dependent on older generations to teach you everything you’ll never get anywhere.

What works for older generations isn’t going to be good advice for getting younger generations to organize and communicate. The age differences are large.

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#130
post #56

I have trouble predicting how public sentiment will evolve over time. I'm not that young, and still and the last 10 years have left me with an absolutely blistering distrust of the 70+ crowd on any matter pertaining to positions of authority. I'd like to see ~67 and ~72 become the other 18 and 21: hard lines beyond which the law progressively rescinds the presumption of total competence. It's not a pretty solution. T…

Testing is expensive, subjective and favors people with resources to game the test. When thinking about stuff like this, we should aim for something more universal, with the understanding that this is not a moral judgement on a person.

In the context of the article and of controls, I think we should worry more about controls on those in power (i.e., politicians) than others (i.e., voters).

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