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Grand Theft Oil Futures: Insider traders keep making a killing at our expense

paulkrugman.substack.com

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Re: Grand Theft Oil Futures: Insider traders keep making a killing at our expense

#11

Post by 59percentmore »

rocqua wrote: post #6
gruez wrote: post #4

So if this sort of "insider trading" is bad, what does this mean for other sorts off strategies hedge funds do to get an edge, like flying helicopters to look at how full oil storage tanks are? Should that be banned too? The article basically argues that any sort of edge is bad because it disincentivizes others from participating. edit: see my subsequent comment. I'm not saying corruption is good. The whole point of…

This insider trading isn't hedge-funds working hard to get an edge. It's political insiders trading ahead of public statements. They are getting gains not by dint of being incredibly smart, nor from working very hard. Instead its from abusing their position in power. And by doing so in this manner, they are taking money away from the actual productive people trading in the futures market. Besides, as Matt Levine ofte…

I'm not sure what world we live in where being able to rent a helicopter implies hard work and not large amounts of preexisting wealth (generally taken by many to indicate at least some abuse of power, somewhere along the way).

Re: Grand Theft Oil Futures: Insider traders keep making a killing at our expense

#12

Post by petesergeant »

gruez wrote: post #4

So if this sort of "insider trading" is bad, what does this mean for other sorts off strategies hedge funds do to get an edge, like flying helicopters to look at how full oil storage tanks are? Should that be banned too? The article basically argues that any sort of edge is bad because it disincentivizes others from participating. edit: see my subsequent comment. I'm not saying corruption is good. The whole point of…

I think Matt Levine’s take on this is best, in that the problem here is _theft_: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-03-13/you-ha...

> The real issue is never whether the trading was unfair to the people on the other side; it’s whether the information was misappropriated from its rightful owners

In this case the rightful owners are the American public in whose employ the leakers are. They got this information from their position of trust, and sold that information, to the disadvantage of the people they work for.

Re: Grand Theft Oil Futures: Insider traders keep making a killing at our expense

#13

Post by VladVladikoff »

gruez wrote: post #4

So if this sort of "insider trading" is bad, what does this mean for other sorts off strategies hedge funds do to get an edge, like flying helicopters to look at how full oil storage tanks are? Should that be banned too? The article basically argues that any sort of edge is bad because it disincentivizes others from participating. edit: see my subsequent comment. I'm not saying corruption is good. The whole point of…

Wait, those big oil tanks don’t have lids? Doesn’t that mean rain would mix with the oil??

Re: Grand Theft Oil Futures: Insider traders keep making a killing at our expense

#14

Post by bilekas »

gruez wrote: post #4

So if this sort of "insider trading" is bad, what does this mean for other sorts off strategies hedge funds do to get an edge, like flying helicopters to look at how full oil storage tanks are? Should that be banned too? The article basically argues that any sort of edge is bad because it disincentivizes others from participating. edit: see my subsequent comment. I'm not saying corruption is good. The whole point of…

> So if this sort of "insider trading" is bad, what does this mean for other sorts off strategies hedge funds do to get an edge, like flying helicopters to look at how full oil storage tanks are?

This is allowed because you've gotten that extra information through your own methods that in theory anyone else can get access to. The problem here is they're using information that nobody else could possibly have access to, therefore its "insider" trading and it's been illegal for a long time.

Re: Grand Theft Oil Futures: Insider traders keep making a killing at our expense

#16

Post by izacus »

gruez wrote: post #4

So if this sort of "insider trading" is bad, what does this mean for other sorts off strategies hedge funds do to get an edge, like flying helicopters to look at how full oil storage tanks are? Should that be banned too? The article basically argues that any sort of edge is bad because it disincentivizes others from participating. edit: see my subsequent comment. I'm not saying corruption is good. The whole point of…

This kind of "well eksuallyyyy" argument isn't very useful or good faith when a systemic harm is highlighted. It's just contrarian muddying of the conversation.

Re: Grand Theft Oil Futures: Insider traders keep making a killing at our expense

#17

Post by petesergeant »

Theodores wrote: post #8

[flagged]

> There will always be opportunities for insider trading, and there always have been. The Rothschilds could get news across Europe quicker than the kings could, so they made vast fortunes.

That is not an example of insider trading

Re: Grand Theft Oil Futures: Insider traders keep making a killing at our expense

#19

Post by tekla »

59percentmore wrote: post #11
rocqua wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This insider trading isn't hedge-funds working hard to get an edge. It's political insiders trading ahead of public statements. They are getting gains not by dint of being incredibly smart, nor from working very hard. Instead its from abusing their position in power. And by doing so in this manner, they are taking money away from the actual productive people trading in the futures market. Besides, as Matt Levine ofte…

I'm not sure what world we live in where being able to rent a helicopter implies hard work and not large amounts of preexisting wealth (generally taken by many to indicate at least some abuse of power, somewhere along the way).

It's a world where renting a helicopter is hilariously cheap available to some average person.

Looking at my local tourist helicopter place, a private custom flight is $1k per ~15m. That seems like nothing if it allows you be make millions with the information.

Re: Grand Theft Oil Futures: Insider traders keep making a killing at our expense

#20

Post by bloomingeek »

gruez wrote: post #4

So if this sort of "insider trading" is bad, what does this mean for other sorts off strategies hedge funds do to get an edge, like flying helicopters to look at how full oil storage tanks are? Should that be banned too? The article basically argues that any sort of edge is bad because it disincentivizes others from participating. edit: see my subsequent comment. I'm not saying corruption is good. The whole point of…

Gee, what could go wrong using governmental info to provide personal gain? Surely they wouldn't be tempted to start causing situations to become reality for personal gain! (ala Dick Cheney and Halliburton.)

Politician are servants of the people, for the people. This involves sacrifice and following the law. (I realize this is a naive statement, but shouldn't we be jailing these law breakers?)

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