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Permacomputing Principles

permacomputing.net

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Re: Permacomputing Principles

#71

Post by wolvesechoes »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #39
zozbot234 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's strong first-principles reasons to think that left-wing radical politics does a significant disservice to historically marginalized or discriminated groups. Historically the proper and most effective response to maginalization and discrimination was developing strong, enduring social ties (arguably, these social ties are what defines a "group" to begin with, especially on very long-run, even generational time…

It is? The left-wing radicals I'm aware of are all very big on community. My understanding of the corresponding "right-wing" value is that community should be a certain way (with the radical right-wing value being that it must be a certain way, for various incompatible versions of "right way"). The radical left-wing response would be an insistence on the validity of other forms of community (notably including relatio…

> The left-wing radicals I'm aware of are all very big on community

Yet they are unable to build or keep one, due to the need to track all signs of thought heresy.

Re: Permacomputing Principles

#72

Post by wolvesechoes »

its-summertime wrote: post #43
knuppar wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a fence sitter take. Everything is political and not acknowledging that is part of the problem.

I think it would be a better approach to not pre-emptively burn oneself out with stress by viewing everything through a political lens at all times.

But everything that touches how society functions, what it values, how it is organized etc. is political.

Re: Permacomputing Principles

#73

Post by christophilus »

camgunz wrote: post #49
jl6 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking some parts and leaving others is exactly how intersectionalism should work: at an individual level. You throw your lot in with the orgs and movements you like, and leave or oppose the ones you don’t. The intersection is within you. Unfortunately the fashion is now for orgs and movements to declare their own intersections, which does nothing to further the core issues, while actively repelling those outside the…

I think there are successful orgs that do both. The pro-life movement in the US was laser focused on that issue, but it was a manufactured campaign by the Republican party to capture evangelicals. You can't say the Republican party is laser focused, but they're also pretty successful. I guess I would say, I'm not sure what the basis of your critique is. I guess if you want to sit back and watch a more centrist permac…

The pro-life movement is huge among trad Catholics, and Catholicism is its roots. I think evangelicals came along pretty early. The Republicans aligned naturally, their base being heavily Christian.

Re: Permacomputing Principles

#74

Post by lithos »

knuppar wrote: post #25
jl6 wrote: post #21

There’s a lot to love about more mindful and resilient and ecological use of computing, but I wish they would build a consensus around that instead of bolting on extra politics. It’s a symptom of polarization… you can’t have independent causes, they have to align to a bunch of other causes too, each one taking a slice off your support base until you’re left with the tiny, powerless intersection that already agrees wi…

This sounds like a fence sitter take. Everything is political and not acknowledging that is part of the problem.

Look a Redditor.

Re: Permacomputing Principles

#75

Post by aleph_minus_one »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #39
zozbot234 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's strong first-principles reasons to think that left-wing radical politics does a significant disservice to historically marginalized or discriminated groups. Historically the proper and most effective response to maginalization and discrimination was developing strong, enduring social ties (arguably, these social ties are what defines a "group" to begin with, especially on very long-run, even generational time…

It is? The left-wing radicals I'm aware of are all very big on community. My understanding of the corresponding "right-wing" value is that community should be a certain way (with the radical right-wing value being that it must be a certain way, for various incompatible versions of "right way"). The radical left-wing response would be an insistence on the validity of other forms of community (notably including relatio…

> The left-wing radicals I'm aware of are all very big on community. My understanding of the corresponding "right-wing" value is that community should be a certain way (with the radical right-wing value being that it must be a certain way, for various incompatible versions of "right way").

The same statement holds for left-wing radicals: they insist that their community should be a certain way (with the radical left-wing value being that it must be a certain way, for various incompatible versions of "right way").

Re: Permacomputing Principles

#76

Post by aleph_minus_one »

thrance wrote: post #53
zozbot234 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's strong first-principles reasons to think that left-wing radical politics does a significant disservice to historically marginalized or discriminated groups. Historically the proper and most effective response to maginalization and discrimination was developing strong, enduring social ties (arguably, these social ties are what defines a "group" to begin with, especially on very long-run, even generational time…

> which in practice is now coded as a "right wing" value. In practice? You mean, rhetorically, surely? The right wing is doing whatever it can to marginalize and disenfranchise anyone it doesn't like (and that's a lot of people). In the end, do you think marginalized people feel more included in the community in progressive cities or MAGA ones?

> The right wing is doing whatever it can to marginalize and disenfranchise anyone it doesn't like (and that's a lot of people).

The same holds for the left wing.

Re: Permacomputing Principles

#78

Post by fmbb »

christophilus wrote: post #73
camgunz wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are successful orgs that do both. The pro-life movement in the US was laser focused on that issue, but it was a manufactured campaign by the Republican party to capture evangelicals. You can't say the Republican party is laser focused, but they're also pretty successful. I guess I would say, I'm not sure what the basis of your critique is. I guess if you want to sit back and watch a more centrist permac…

The pro-life movement is huge among trad Catholics, and Catholicism is its roots. I think evangelicals came along pretty early. The Republicans aligned naturally, their base being heavily Christian.

I think you have the timeline confused.

The pro-life movement is older than the Reagan era courting on Christians to grow the Republican base. So it was not a Christian base that caused a shift, it was the other way around.

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