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Programming Still Sucks

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Re: Programming Still Sucks

#161

Post by lelanthran »

bluegatty wrote: post #94
nchagnet wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe 'journalism' wasn't the best suggestion by the OP but I have to disagree with the rest of your message. It may be a rant, or less pejoratively it may be a cry for help of someone seeing their industry's future, but I can't accept that it's not well written. When is the last time you opened an HN comment section and the main comment was that people enjoyed the writing quality? Maybe it says more about what we us…

I commented only because I didn't think it was particularly well written, and I found the threaD to be full of people commenting on how well written it was. It's highly personalized and interesting, but I wouldn't call it well written. As a personal bit of art - 'thumbs up', but anything else is overstated. But more appropriately, the nihilism on this thread is unhinged. "seeing their industry's future" ??? I'm seein…

> I commented only because I didn't think it was particularly well written, and I found the threaD to be full of people commenting on how well written it was.

While "well-written" is subjective, the bar for "well-written" is whether people enjoyed reading it and the author managed to deliver his message.

I'm now very curious what bar you personally use for well-written, because it obviously differs from the majority of the people in this thread.

Re: Programming Still Sucks

#162

Post by simgt »

hparadiz wrote: post #154
ironmagma wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of modern society is new in history; what is that supposed to say? If you are making the point that it's unproven and fragile, that would be a good point and actually one that supports "woe is me" because all of it could disappear overnight considering the fragility.

In my lifetime I have watched SPARC SUN Servers being thrown in the trash, spaghetti coded javascript and php run fortune 500s, the linux kernel adding containers, and everyone now being required to know how to code for CI so they can rerun tests, linters, and rebuild their app on every commit and publish it to an S3 bucket with specific IAM permissions tied to some SSO IAM provider. At no point in any of that was an…

Learning a new language or tech has always been such a minor hurdle. The whole point of the current wave of AI is that there is nowhere to retreat to if your means of income depends solely on intellectual work. Learn a trade or train to be a vet, sure, that'll last a while longer.

Re: Programming Still Sucks

#163

Post by stevenlangbroek »

torginus wrote: post #138
hsuduebc2 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autor surely always could be journalist. He can write a exceptional story.

I mean he could be, though nowadays that's not really a recongition of skill some seem to think it is nowadays. Besides this is an opinion piece, which contains passages comparing programmers who despite AI, make hundreds of thousands of dollars sitting at home or air conditioned offices, to bangladeshi indentured workers. Even if we do away with hyperbole and take the 'Sara' example, programming are still one of the…

You're giving "yet you participate in society" vibes that I don't love, but let me address a few things:

- We're not indentured workers yet. We should always have been fighting for their dignity & rights, because they're ours too. - Might I invite you to read the original, it's linked at the top of the article. Sure, programming isn't physically demanding, but that doesn't mean we should just accept the bad parts. - All of that being said, yes I agree, other jobs are more valuable and it's insane that we get paid what we do. That's why I'm a socialist. Your value shouldn't depend on a grabbag of accidental circumstances outside of your control.

As to selling consulting on the side: I've been an employee for 2 decades, and am striking out on my own to build a better life for my newborn son & fiance. Sorry for wanting to be a more present father.

Re: Programming Still Sucks

#164

Post by lproven »

ramon156 wrote: post #110
01100011 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society doesn't owe me over $500k/year for writing some instructions in a cryptic specification language. It's cool that I've been getting that, but I consider that luck and circumstance. When robots take my job I'll go find something else to do. I'm not going to blame evil rich people or some other boogieman.

Im a medior and I earn 42k/yr. It would be a privilege for me to earn this much, as I cannot afford a home.

> Im a medior

I do not know that word. I looked it up and found nothing helpful. What does it mean, and what do you mean?

Also, may I ask you to use more punctuation and things like currency symbols, because your message lacks so much context I can't even guess.

Re: Programming Still Sucks

#165

Post by senordevnyc »

stevenlangbroek wrote: post #129
bluegatty wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

your experiences (and probably mine as well) are not a reflection of the general reality of the industry - that's the root of the problem; the writing is a projection, not a reality. The writing is fine (even good) as a personal story, not in the manner in which people here seem to be interpreting it.

i dunno. i'm happy to read in the comments here (and elsewhere) that my experience is not unique, many others have similar experiences and are going through the same feelings: grief. i think we're allowed to grieve, don't you?

I hear a lot more rage, envy, cynicism, bitterness, nihilism, and and learned helplessness than grief.

Re: Programming Still Sucks

#166

Post by lproven »

bluegatty wrote: post #94
nchagnet wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe 'journalism' wasn't the best suggestion by the OP but I have to disagree with the rest of your message. It may be a rant, or less pejoratively it may be a cry for help of someone seeing their industry's future, but I can't accept that it's not well written. When is the last time you opened an HN comment section and the main comment was that people enjoyed the writing quality? Maybe it says more about what we us…

I commented only because I didn't think it was particularly well written, and I found the threaD to be full of people commenting on how well written it was. It's highly personalized and interesting, but I wouldn't call it well written. As a personal bit of art - 'thumbs up', but anything else is overstated. But more appropriately, the nihilism on this thread is unhinged. "seeing their industry's future" ??? I'm seein…

> I didn't think it was particularly well written, and I found the threaD to be full of people commenting on how well written it was.

Here is a thought that seems not to have occurred to you.

All these people saying it's good. You commented multiple times to say you disagree and think it is bad.

Maybe that means you do not get it. Maybe the problem here is you and your reading and your lack of comprehension. Maybe the problem is not in the article and the way the article is written.

Re: Programming Still Sucks

#167

Post by munksbeer »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #69
yoyohello13 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He really put in to words what I’ve been feeling lately. I love programming and I’m quite good at it, but this industry is a cesspit. I’ve already decided to go back to school to get one of those ‘real’ jobs. I’m tired of working in an industry hell bent on the destruction of society.

>> I’m tired of working in an industry hell bent on the destruction of society. People will argue this point. However, when I look at all the things that tech has done thinking it was going to improve society; when in fact, it did the exact opposite is hard to argue. AI is just another item on a very long list of dystopian markers that writers/musicians have warned us about for years. The scary part now is people den…

>People will argue this point. However, when I look at all the things that tech has done thinking it was going to improve society; when in fact, it did the exact opposite is hard to argue.

Certainly a lot of bad things have come out of tech.

But I don't agree that it has made everything overall worse. That feels like recency bias. In which few decades in history would you rather be spending your years on this earth, instead of now?

Re: Programming Still Sucks

#168

Post by stevenlangbroek »

eloisant wrote: post #151
stevenlangbroek wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Programming gives me great joy. I wrote my first batch scripts when I was 6 years old. I got my first job in the industry when I was 20. I'm 41 now. The problem isn't the act of programming. As to juniors, first time I heard someone brag about AI removing the need to hire juniors was in 2022. every junior I know is struggling to find work. It's not hard to find reddit threads with people sharing their experience to t…

> every junior I know is struggling to find work. They also struggled in 2000, and in 2008. There was no AI at the time.

You mean after the dot-com bubble and after the financial crisis? I mean, not to disagree, but what point are you making here?

Re: Programming Still Sucks

#169

Post by munksbeer »

bluegatty wrote: post #48
yoyohello13 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He really put in to words what I’ve been feeling lately. I love programming and I’m quite good at it, but this industry is a cesspit. I’ve already decided to go back to school to get one of those ‘real’ jobs. I’m tired of working in an industry hell bent on the destruction of society.

'The industry' is not hellbent on destroying society - this is just so unhinged it's hard to know how to make of it.

You're getting really downvoted, which just proves people don't like hearing views that challenge their narrative.

I agree with you. Human greed has always been a thing, will always be a thing. But most people now would never choose to go back and be born 100 years ago if given the option. They ignore everything positive that technology has done, and massively ramp the negatives.

Re: Programming Still Sucks

#170

Post by 113 »

01100011 wrote: post #92
fooqux wrote: post #27

> AI didn't take our jobs. Greed did. Same greed that moved factories to Bangladesh and keeps slaves in cobalt mines in the Congo, wearing a new mask. Tell the nephew to do something else. Anything. It won't save him either, but at least he won't have to pretend the thing destroying his life is a robot. This hit me hard. This article is art. I think I need to sleep on this and read it again in the morning.

Society doesn't owe me over $500k/year for writing some instructions in a cryptic specification language. It's cool that I've been getting that, but I consider that luck and circumstance. When robots take my job I'll go find something else to do. I'm not going to blame evil rich people or some other boogieman.

You are the rich people.
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