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What British people mean when they say 'sorry'

bbc.com

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Re: What British people mean when they say 'sorry'

#31

Post by roarcher »

ccppurcell wrote: post #27
roarcher wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't this just... normal? In the anglosphere maybe, but outside of that it seems to not be. My girlfriend is from SE Asia and her language's equivalent is evidently used exclusively to apologize for having wronged someone. I've had to explain my usage of "I'm sorry that [bad thing happened]" or "Sorry, but can I just [very minorly inconvenience you]" because she didn't understand what I was admitting fault for. In…

The I'm sorry (that someone died) is easy to explain as it's obviously connected to the word sorrow. The hardest is "sorry?" (I didn't understand or hear you)

It's easy to explain, but her language (Vietnamese) has no relation to English other than forced adoption of the Latin alphabet, so she wouldn't see that connection.

"Sorry" is most commonly translated as "xin lỗi" which literally means something like "request forgiveness". It's connected exclusively to the notion of fault, not sadness. The real issue is that sorry xin lỗi is a ubiquitous but poor translation, because the meaning of xin lỗi is much more specific than sorry.

Re: What British people mean when they say 'sorry'

#33

Post by mettamage »

As a Dutchie the way I used sorry is along the lines of “I am sorry, I won’t do that again.”

Then I had a long relationship with an ethnically Dutch person but culturally a Londoner (she grew up there) and also learned there is “I am sorry for your pain and wish I could take it away” (this implies though they probably would do it again because they are not sorry for their actions).

It was maddening at first but now I am used to it. I only do this in English though. In Dutch it’s almost like I physically can’t. It feels wrong to use it that way, almost unethical even.

But maybe that’s a me thing.

Re: What British people mean when they say 'sorry'

#37

Post by tdeck »

Izkata wrote: post #15

Isn't this just... normal? Maybe they use it more often, but (also in the Midwest as other comments mention) these uses are all more common than an actual apology. But for a more distant example of the "I'm about to inconvenience you" usage being normal - isn't the Japanese "sumimasen" used almost exactly the same as these?

As a learner it feels like Japanese is full of this kind of formalized, preemptory apologizing in all kinds of situations. You go to the supermarket and ask if they sell stamps (the answer is no) and they say the formal apology "申し訳ありません" (literally: I have no excuse).

There's also ごめん下さい "gomen kudasai" (literally "please forgive me") which is used as a greeting when visiting someone's house unexpectedly. And どうもすみません "domo sumimasen" (literally "thanks excuse me/I'm sorry") when accepting someone's offer to help with something.

None of these necessarily imply the speaker has actually done something wrong or wouldn't do the same again.

Re: What British people mean when they say 'sorry'

#38

Post by roarcher »

dieselgate wrote: post #23
enochthered wrote: post #9

I’m a Brit. It was only after living overseas that I realised just how mad our use of “sorry” can be. An example. One day I was on the tube. My bag was on the seat next to me. A bloke gets on, points at my bag and says “sorry”. What he actually meant, was “move your bag”. The thing is, if he had said something so direct, I would have said “sorry, what did you say to me?” And on and on…

I grew up in the states with a close friend whose parents are both from the UK and she's the only person I've known to say "I beg your pardon" with regularity. Is that a British/UK English thing too? I never hear/read it used otherwise but it seems more succinct and "proper" to me. Mentioning it because I'm actually slightly surprised to see the "sorry, what did you say" usage here and in the article because it seems…

I'm American and I've heard Americans say "I beg your pardon", but like you I've always thought of it as a slightly proper (maybe WASP-y) idiom. People frequently say "excuse me", "sorry?", or "say again?". At least I do. Maybe I should get my ears checked.

Re: What British people mean when they say 'sorry'

#39

Post by swarnie »

enochthered wrote: post #9

I’m a Brit. It was only after living overseas that I realised just how mad our use of “sorry” can be. An example. One day I was on the tube. My bag was on the seat next to me. A bloke gets on, points at my bag and says “sorry”. What he actually meant, was “move your bag”. The thing is, if he had said something so direct, I would have said “sorry, what did you say to me?” And on and on…

> One day I was on the tube. My bag was on the seat next to me

Presumably you also said sorry in return?

Re: What British people mean when they say 'sorry'

#40

Post by swarnie »

dieselgate wrote: post #23
enochthered wrote: post #9

I’m a Brit. It was only after living overseas that I realised just how mad our use of “sorry” can be. An example. One day I was on the tube. My bag was on the seat next to me. A bloke gets on, points at my bag and says “sorry”. What he actually meant, was “move your bag”. The thing is, if he had said something so direct, I would have said “sorry, what did you say to me?” And on and on…

I grew up in the states with a close friend whose parents are both from the UK and she's the only person I've known to say "I beg your pardon" with regularity. Is that a British/UK English thing too? I never hear/read it used otherwise but it seems more succinct and "proper" to me. Mentioning it because I'm actually slightly surprised to see the "sorry, what did you say" usage here and in the article because it seems…

"I beg your pardon" like "Sorry" can have multiple meanings based on the situation and inflection.

It can be used to excuse not hearing something, to get someone to repeat something preposterous or to generally reply to something shocking without actually expecting the other person to reiterate.

I hear it most days in corporate tech.....

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