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Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

simonwillison.net

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Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#501

Post by jtr1 »

u8 wrote: post #440

The disconnect for AI is that it is a jagged frontier and it only really shines when one of its jagged frontiers extends counter to one of your valleys. If you've been writing Perl for 30 years, you might not want to learn JavaScript just to make a little fun idea in your head to show your wife. Vibe code that shit man. Who cares? Your wife does not care about LOC or those internal design decisions you made. If you'r…

I have been building an iOS app that I had kicking around in my head for years but never had time to build. I have been a frontend UX engineer for the better part of a decade and went through a handful of tutorials on Swift. The project definitely sits in this uncanny valley for me. I have test suites for every aspect of the app and have the agent using TDD to avoid cheating - this has gotten me pretty far without having to look too close at the output other than general structure. As I'm reaching a more mature stage of the project though, I'm finding that I want to tweak a lot by hand in the code to get the details right without burning tokens.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#502

Post by jFriedensreich »

We still have not the right sandbox and PR abstractions to make the merge of the two complete. Imagine merging a PR and knowing exactly this code cannot ever possibly reach the internet and it can only receive and send specific shapes of api requests from these specific services, it has well defined resource limits and you have specific optimal UI to review these constraints. I can imagine to not review a bigger number of PRs in that reality.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#503

Post by nullsanity »

ditchfieldcaleb wrote: post #495
u8 wrote: post #440

The disconnect for AI is that it is a jagged frontier and it only really shines when one of its jagged frontiers extends counter to one of your valleys. If you've been writing Perl for 30 years, you might not want to learn JavaScript just to make a little fun idea in your head to show your wife. Vibe code that shit man. Who cares? Your wife does not care about LOC or those internal design decisions you made. If you'r…

I agree with you on everything you said here except: > when you know how the thing works and have that mental context, you will always be faster than an AI That's just plain false, honestly. No one can type at the speed AI can code, even factoring in the time you need to spend to properly write out the spec & design rules the AI needs to follow when implementing your app/feature/whatever. And that gap will only incre…

[dead]

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#504

Post by platevoltage »

tuom1s wrote: post #86
drfloyd51 wrote: post #49

It is pure arrogance to expect that machines will never be able to code as good as a skilled human. And AI generated code should be different than human code. AI has infinite memory for details. AI doesn’t need organizational patterns like classes. Potentially AI can write code that is more performant than any human. Will it look like garbage? Sure. Will the code be more suited to the task? Yes.

What will happen when AI companies increase the price of tokens? The code produced will only be understandable by AI. You could use locally hosted LLMs, but it won't be as performant as AI run by big guys. And there is nothing stopping greedy companies implementing some ridiculous pattern that only their model can reasonably work with. So what you'll do in situation when you can't understand "your" codebase and you h…

I think this is going to happen sooner than most people think.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#505

Post by JSR_FDED »

ditchfieldcaleb wrote: post #495
u8 wrote: post #440

The disconnect for AI is that it is a jagged frontier and it only really shines when one of its jagged frontiers extends counter to one of your valleys. If you've been writing Perl for 30 years, you might not want to learn JavaScript just to make a little fun idea in your head to show your wife. Vibe code that shit man. Who cares? Your wife does not care about LOC or those internal design decisions you made. If you'r…

I agree with you on everything you said here except: > when you know how the thing works and have that mental context, you will always be faster than an AI That's just plain false, honestly. No one can type at the speed AI can code, even factoring in the time you need to spend to properly write out the spec & design rules the AI needs to follow when implementing your app/feature/whatever. And that gap will only incre…

It should be “…you will always be faster than someone _without the knowledge_ using an AI”

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#506

Post by skeledrew »

rimmontrieu wrote: post #462
u8 wrote: post #440

The disconnect for AI is that it is a jagged frontier and it only really shines when one of its jagged frontiers extends counter to one of your valleys. If you've been writing Perl for 30 years, you might not want to learn JavaScript just to make a little fun idea in your head to show your wife. Vibe code that shit man. Who cares? Your wife does not care about LOC or those internal design decisions you made. If you'r…

Some people actually don't really like to learn new things. If the machine spits out plausible working code, they'd be perfectly happy with that. Personally I think AI is doing a lot more harm than good and I can't wait for the bubble to burst.

Let those who want to learn go learn. And let those who just want something that works well enough without having to learn get it.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#507

Post by leostarship »

ditchfieldcaleb wrote: post #495
u8 wrote: post #440

The disconnect for AI is that it is a jagged frontier and it only really shines when one of its jagged frontiers extends counter to one of your valleys. If you've been writing Perl for 30 years, you might not want to learn JavaScript just to make a little fun idea in your head to show your wife. Vibe code that shit man. Who cares? Your wife does not care about LOC or those internal design decisions you made. If you'r…

I agree with you on everything you said here except: > when you know how the thing works and have that mental context, you will always be faster than an AI That's just plain false, honestly. No one can type at the speed AI can code, even factoring in the time you need to spend to properly write out the spec & design rules the AI needs to follow when implementing your app/feature/whatever. And that gap will only incre…

as i understood it he's referring to the overall time it takes to build a complete finished piece of software, accounting for the refactoring and bug fixes and all that. cause handn't you understood the tools you're using you would be running into roadblocks and that adds up

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#508

Post by [deleted] »

u8 wrote: post #440

The disconnect for AI is that it is a jagged frontier and it only really shines when one of its jagged frontiers extends counter to one of your valleys. If you've been writing Perl for 30 years, you might not want to learn JavaScript just to make a little fun idea in your head to show your wife. Vibe code that shit man. Who cares? Your wife does not care about LOC or those internal design decisions you made. If you'r…

[deleted]

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#509

Post by np1810 »

devin wrote: post #39

> If you can go from producing 200 lines of code a day to 2,000 lines of code a day, what else breaks? The entire software development lifecycle was, it turns out, designed around the idea that it takes a day to produce a few hundred lines of code. And now it doesn’t. It is so embarrassing that LOC is being used as a metric for engineering output.

I just read somewhere on HN that "code is a liability, not an asset, the idea behind the code/final product is the actual asset." And, I can't agree more...

> It is so embarrassing that LOC is being used as a metric for engineering output.

In one of my previous org, LOC added in the previous year was a metric used to find out a good engineer v/s a PIP (bad) engineer. Also, LOC removed was treated as a negative metric for the same. I hope they've changed this methodology for LLM code-spitting era...

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#510

Post by nbvkappowqpeop »

u8 wrote: post #440

The disconnect for AI is that it is a jagged frontier and it only really shines when one of its jagged frontiers extends counter to one of your valleys. If you've been writing Perl for 30 years, you might not want to learn JavaScript just to make a little fun idea in your head to show your wife. Vibe code that shit man. Who cares? Your wife does not care about LOC or those internal design decisions you made. If you'r…

thanks for this take, articulates what i've been feeling towards "AI" without my angst
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