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Life During Class Wartime

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Re: Life During Class Wartime

#171

Post by tyg13 »

thunky wrote: post #163
tyg13 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody wants to give away a slice of their net worth to pay for bullshit wars and ballrooms. The vast majority of people in America are already doing this, because their wealth is entirely derived from their income. Your complaint isn't relevant to the discussion of wealth vs income taxes.

> The vast majority of people in America are already doing this, because their wealth is entirely derived from their income Derived is not the same thing. Not even close. Then why stop at 1%? Why not fork over half of your possessions to the government every year and let them spend it for you, if you trust them so much? And by the way we already have a wealth tax. Its called inflation.

Why not eliminate tax entirely, then? Is that a conclusion you'd support?

Re: Life During Class Wartime

#172

Post by tomhow »

ethanwillis wrote: post #158
XorNot wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US despite everything still runs a popular vote driven democracy that is clearly capable of implementing on short notice, sweeping changes to policy. The problem remains that the US voter consistently demonstrates they don't actually care about these problems though, compared to using the state to intentionally inflict misery on subgroups they don't like. The most radical thing the current administration proves i…

[flagged]

If you’re trying to make the case that “sometimes violence is the only answer”, please stop.

It’s the responsibility of thoughtful people in a civilized society to find ways of solving problems, even very large and deep ones, without violence.

As soon as we think “there’s no alternative other than violence”, we need to think harder. All the worst atrocities in history happened because enough people allowed themselves to think “violence is the only answer”.

Re: Life During Class Wartime

#173

Post by pocksuppet »

arzig wrote: post #101
shigawire wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>trying to manage a confiscatory bureaucracy would have the same issues It would be a cat and mouse game but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Like how funding the IRS appropriately increases government revenue.

Yes. And so we have the IRS whose enforcement measures fall disproportionately upon the disadvantaged and which is the only law enforcement agency permitted to open proceedings against citizens without evidence of wrong doing. I would hold this up as the archetypal bad example.

This is an intentional policy decision by those in charge of IRS funding - not a side effect of anything.

Re: Life During Class Wartime

#175

Post by nickvec »

Gathering6678 wrote: post #174

The seemingly lack of any source for the first illustration (share of wealth) troubles me...

It is taken from the linked “Distribution of wealth” Wikipedia article with a corresponding source. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_wealth#Wealth_...

Re: Life During Class Wartime

#176

Post by slibhb »

zug_zug wrote: post #3

Yeah I'm glad somebody's talking about it. Wealth inequality seems like it will be THE defining issue of our lives (accelerated drastically by AI). I think there are many practical ways to solve it, and would love to see more proposals out there. Instead I tend to see nihilism or division.

Inequality isn't a big problem. Those who claim it is seem to think that the existence of really rich people causes the existence of really poor people. That is not the case.

It's natural that things are less equal now that we're not farmers or hunter-gatherers. Economies of scale will massively enrich those who take build them.

Sometimes it is claimed that inequality is a problem because the rich will control politics. But populism is surging and the rich seem to have a harder time controlling politics than ever, largely due to the disintegration of the print/tv media.

Re: Life During Class Wartime

#177

Post by 100721 »

deschutes wrote: post #123
100721 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most visibly homeless people in wealthy west coast cities are severely mentally ill in ways that prevent them from living a normal life or even living peacefully with other people without some kind of institutionalization Sources? This just sounds like cope from a wealthy individual who wants to feel better about not helping the problem.

It's hard to find anyone that doesn't have some motivation in this problem. I won't claim any percentages because I do not know them and I would not trust them even if I did. That said, my experience in a urban area on the west coast has given me many examples that support this notion that it's not just a housing problem. Indeed many of the local governments own attempts to house the unhoused fail in no small part be…

> That said, my experience in an urban area on the west coast has given me many examples that support this notion that it's not just a housing problem.

You would know more about the situation in west coast cities better than myself, I’ll admit.

What I take issue with is how the anecdotes closely align with certain political talking points - it rings an alarm bell or two, and begs for more concrete sources. Personally, I couldn’t find any reliable sources saying one way or the other.

Anecdotes are highly susceptible to confirmation bias though, along with other biases. It’s one of the reasons propaganda is so effective: our preconceived notions influence how we see and interpret the world around us. This affects me too, I’m not immune to propaganda (2015 me thought the idea of a Trump presidency was “funny” because of the memes and I thought he had zero chance of winning, for example - don’t worry, I’m not American so no votes were cast!)

I appreciate you taking the time to respond with such detail, and you seem to be writing in good faith, but I think this issue is a lot more nuanced than (paraphrasing - not trying to directly attribute a quote to you) “the homeless in west coast cities are there because they cannot function normally in society”.

It’s a sensitive topic for me personally because my family was one of those “sheltered homeless” families for a few years when I was still single-digits of age, and growing up in severe poverty I also met many other homeless people. I can guarantee you, if wealth inequality were not so severe then many people wouldn’t have fallen into drugs and mental health crises to begin with.

Many folks see it as a “chicken or egg” problem, when really, we all know that struggling to make ends meet and being evicted is highly stressful and traumatic. Wealth inequality is the root of many of these tragic stories, and it’s unfair to label everyone in that position as if they’re fully to blame for their situation in life.

But, again, I’m not American and my culture is much more socialist and cooperative. So maybe the unhoused in America truly do fit your descriptions, and I simply have no idea what I’m talking about. :P

In any case, thank you for your thoughtful and insightful replies.

Re: Life During Class Wartime

#178

Post by jacquesm »

pstuart wrote: post #151
jacquesm wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll find half the voting population is aligned with the capital against that. So I don't think that will fly until the situation becomes quite dire.

> until the situation becomes quite dire. Ironically, it's already incredibly dire. People are stupid -- it's crazy making to watch this play out.

That's true, but not so dire that they are motivated to act, besides, they are too gullible to even properly register how far they've been duped to act against their own interests. I used to have some kind of delusion about how democracy was 'good enough' because of my implicit assumption that people on average were smart enough, educated enough and in general wise enough to realize when they're being played. That seems to have been a pretty serious mistake on my part.

Re: Life During Class Wartime

#179

Post by lovich »

tomhow wrote: post #157
jacquesm wrote: post #35

[flagged]

We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48041608 and marked it off topic. Not cool. Other users were perfectly able to respond to the parent with curious conversation. I'm not going to respond any further publicly. You can email us if you want to discuss further.

[flagged]

Re: Life During Class Wartime

#180

Post by pstuart »

jacquesm wrote: post #178
pstuart wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> until the situation becomes quite dire. Ironically, it's already incredibly dire. People are stupid -- it's crazy making to watch this play out.

That's true, but not so dire that they are motivated to act, besides, they are too gullible to even properly register how far they've been duped to act against their own interests. I used to have some kind of delusion about how democracy was 'good enough' because of my implicit assumption that people on average were smart enough, educated enough and in general wise enough to realize when they're being played. That se…

I'm right there with you. Prior to 2016 I assumed that most people would "do the right thing" when it was made clear that it was the right thing to do.

But now it literally feels like a bad horror flick where there's a zombie mind-control virus that turns people into passive drones that can no longer have independent thought.

And while I used the word "stupid", there's plenty of otherwise intelligent people that have fallen prey to this and there's literally nothing one can say or do to have them reconsider their stance.

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