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BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

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Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#321

Post by dyauspitr »

cromka wrote: post #110
fusslo wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have two chinese-born coworkers (who spent 20-30 years here in the us) in the same room. When we talk about china's expansion, I am always jealous of the public projects, infrastructure, housing, etc. They always point out the huge unemployment of young people, declining birth rate, and other social ills. They say they're worried when the building stops. Even more people will be out of jobs. And when the nation age…

China will likely become the go-to place for immigrants within couple decades. Just like any other developed economy had.

I don’t think so. They have a massive working population and foreign entrepreneurship is hard there. Also they have no process of assimilation and are pretty openly hostile to outsiders. If anything you might see low skilled immigrant labor moving there but I don’t think there’s going to be large numbers of high skilled workers moving there.

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#322

Post by HerbManic »

twilo wrote: post #282
aworks wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I traveled to Wuhan twice a year for business for much of the last decade (until the pandemic). China was a growing country that clearly knew how to build infrastructure. In Wuhan, they built an entire development intended to employ 100,000 engineers (Huawei + our US company's 50). They built a subway system in a decade that's bigger than New York City's. I took the high-speed rail to Beijing and it was superb. They…

What’s wrong with their demographics? Population decline?

It has been called the 4-2-1 problem. 4 people had 2 kids. Those 2 kids had 1 of their own. This means there ends up with a more elderly people with far fewer young to support them. That doesn't look like a recipe for social stability. This is why they are going in so hard on automation nowadays, they are trying to do what Japan attempted in the 90s/2000s but hopefully with more success.

This was originally a side effect of the One child policy, but now it is continued due to difficult living situations. This is not a uniquely China issue.

https://alexatsintolas.weebly.com/the-4-2-1-problem.html

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#323

Post by tssva »

10xDev wrote: post #280
gambiting wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>and see what has happened in Europe as a massive cautionary tale As a European - what has happened to us, exactly? I'm curious what kind of thing you think is happening to Europe that is such disaster that even China should be afraid of it.

European GDP per capita has not grown since the crash in 2008. Ever since we have heard that immigrants are being imported for jobs, yet the economy only gets worse, house prices increases due to supply and demand and crime rate is not equal among groups. Yes some people are just white supremacists but also, immigration hasn't solved anything in Europe in recent times. It is not like the US where you have a massive s…

Not getting an Elon Musk seems like a massive positive.

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#324

Post by HerbManic »

threethirtytwo wrote: post #47
throwaway_7274 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was glued to the window while flying over southern China recently. There is so much infrastructure you can see from the air, even in fairly rural provinces. So many bridges. So many wind turbines. It is visibly a country on the move, a country that believes in itself and its ability to do things. The Chinese Century is increasingly palpable, for better or worse.

A Chinese person who was here in the US as a foreign student once commented to me that he was so surprised that the United States was like the country side. He didn’t realize how rural the country was. This was at UCLA which is in LA which is the second biggest city in the US.

I get the same thing here is Australia. There is a lot of space with little going on.

I mean we have the Nullarbor plain. The name literally means 'No Trees', and it is very fitting.

If you ever end up there... I hope you don't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullarbor_Plain

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#325

Post by Arubis »

soperj wrote: post #273
Danox wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that a problem? Most of the people in China live in about 1/3 of the country. Imagine if everyone in the United States lived in just 1/3 of the United States even with 350 million people that would be crowded , but China has 1.3 billion people living in an area the size of the United States from the Atlantic Ocean to the Mississippi river imagine 1.3 billion people living just in that area. Building infrastruc…

> Imagine if everyone in the United States lived in just 1/3 of the United States Take a 100 mile strip down the east coast and the west coast. Add Chicago. That's pretty much everyone.

Yeah, same thought. Parent post isn’t theoretical; that’s pretty much what actual US demographics are.

The population of the NYC metro area exceeds that of the entire US Mountain _timezone_.

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#326

Post by atonse »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #143
atonse wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With EVs, Tesla's the only one in the US not phoning it in. I used to think they were until I got a new Model Y Juniper. I don't count Rivian or Lucid until they actually have even somewhat affordable EVs. But pretty much everyone else in the US is doing a piss poor job with EVs and just don't seem to care at all. Ford seemed to have lost interest in the F-150 lightning. I agree that trade needs to be a two way stree…

Tesla still seems like they're phoning it in to me. Where's the generational refreshes? Where's the Model 2, or any new regular consumer models? Obviously Rivian and Lucid don't have affordable cars yet, but they seem to be moving in that direction, and they're clearly still trying. I'm hopeful about Slate, though obviously they haven't sold anything yet so it's just hope.

I do think they're missing an affordable SUV (something that's a true 3-row SUV like the Model X but cheaper). And Musk has teased something like that recently.

And Rivian is about to make an affordable SUV. So overall, I am hoping that there is a vibrant ecosystem of EVs from companies that actually understand software (as opposed to many EVs that have shitty software). Not sure about Lucid.

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#327

Post by shipman05 »

soperj wrote: post #273
Danox wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that a problem? Most of the people in China live in about 1/3 of the country. Imagine if everyone in the United States lived in just 1/3 of the United States even with 350 million people that would be crowded , but China has 1.3 billion people living in an area the size of the United States from the Atlantic Ocean to the Mississippi river imagine 1.3 billion people living just in that area. Building infrastruc…

> Imagine if everyone in the United States lived in just 1/3 of the United States Take a 100 mile strip down the east coast and the west coast. Add Chicago. That's pretty much everyone.

IDK if pretty much everyone can exclude Florida and Texas, the second and third most populated states. (Or I suppose you could be excluding the Northeast Corridor instead of Florida)

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#328

Post by mytailorisrich »

gambiting wrote: post #297
10xDev wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European GDP per capita has not grown since the crash in 2008. Ever since we have heard that immigrants are being imported for jobs, yet the economy only gets worse, house prices increases due to supply and demand and crime rate is not equal among groups. Yes some people are just white supremacists but also, immigration hasn't solved anything in Europe in recent times. It is not like the US where you have a massive s…

>>Ever since we have heard that immigrants are being imported for jobs You do realize that most of European migration is internal, right? Polish workers going to Germany, that kind of thing? It would be like complaining that American migration is crazy because of all the people moving from Kansas to take jobs in California. >> house prices increases due to supply and demand and crime rate is not equal among groups As…

It isn't true that most migration is internal, actually. Across the whole EU in 2023 77% of new immigrants were non-EU [1], for instance.

[1] https://www.rfberlin.com/immigrant-population-eu/

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#329

Post by FireBeyond »

sourcegrift wrote: post #281
hdhdhsjsbdh wrote: post #3

BYD has to me become an icon of US decline vs Chinese expansion. It’s just one example among many of China charting the way forward and innovating while the US recedes further into backward-looking, protectionist policy. See: US politicians on both sides trying to ban BYD imports rather than incentivizing stiffer competition from US automakers. Another example: massive growth in Chinese renewables while the US opens…

China harvests organs of muslims. China doesn't allow LGBTQ representation on public media. China forcibly married uyghur women to handle men. It's important to remember the whole global picture before we take sides.

> China doesn't allow LGBTQ representation on public media.

And several US states are inching closer to making being some of those letters, particularly the T, outright illegal.

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#330

Post by Arubis »

strictnein wrote: post #204
cromka wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China will likely become the go-to place for immigrants within couple decades. Just like any other developed economy had.

That would be quite the change, considering they don't really allow any outsiders to become citizens.

Does it matter? If a permanent resident class exists (de facto is fine, if not legal), what would those folks be missing out on that citizenship would confer? You can’t legalize your way to cultural assimilation, and it’s not like the CCP would tolerate a meaningful vote.
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