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Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

simonwillison.net

281–290 of 958 posts

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#281
> I know full well that if you ask Claude Code to build a JSON API endpoint that runs a SQL query and outputs the results as JSON, it’s just going to do it right. It’s not going to mess that up.

> Claude Code does not have a professional reputation!

how come?

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#282

I think I'm just too opinionated to go there. If I see something that works fine, but isn't the way I'd do it, it doesn't matter if a human or an LLM wrote it I'm still in there making it match my vision.

This is the way. If you're a prick about quality and outcomes, whether you typed it with your digits or the robot spit it out is irrelevant.

What standard of result are you pursuing and are you willing to discipline yourself enough to achieve it?

AI can't make you un-lazy, no matter how many tokens you pay for.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#283
> I’m starting to treat the agents in the same way. And it still feels uncomfortable, because human beings are accountable for what they do. A team can build a reputation. I can say “I trust that team over there. They built good software in the past. They’re not going to build something rubbish because that affects their professional reputations.”

The most important part and why slop isn't the same as a code written by someone else. The model doesn't care, it just produces whatever it is asked to produce. It doesn't have pride, it doesn't have ego, it doesn't artisanal qualities, it doesn't have ownership.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#284
"Code quality" was always a mirage imo. Logic is what matters. I've used the internet from the early days, and probably 99% of software I used always had serious bugs. Ultima online was mentioned in HN recently: it was a real bug-and-exploit-fest. Banks, AAA games, companies like Uber with 1000's of engineers - they all had serious problems (and that's still true). It would be worst if some engineers didn't have that drive to code in high quality, but we gotta admit that was not ever enough. Even now with Claude Code, I see a lot of "specifications" that are far from specified enough - and people blame the LLM.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad engineers continue being bad, good engineers continue being good. I personally don’t know any colleagues who were good engineers just because they wrote code faster. The best engineers I know were ones who drew on experience and careful consideration and shared critical insights with their team that steered the direction of the system positively. > Claude, engineer a system for me, but do it good. Thanks!

> I personally don’t know any colleagues who were good engineers just because they wrote code faster. However, the best engineers I know are usually among the quickest to open an editor or debugger and use it fluently to try something out. It's precisely that speed that enables a process like "let's try X, hmm, how about Y, no... ok, Z is nice; ok team, here are the tradeoffs...". Then they remember their experience…

As you practice it will be apparent, you simply keep working on the application architecture yourself.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#286
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"many engineers have not yet tried things that became feasible over the last months" I have heard this statement every single day for 2 years and yet we still have no companies compressing 10 years into 1 year thus exploding past all the incumbents who don't "get it".

If you want an example of a project that condensed 5 years into 6 months and exploded past the competition I suggest looking at OpenClaw. The first line of code was written on November 25th. It achieved adoption in the "personal agents" space that far exceeded the other companies that had tried the same thing. (Whether or not you trust the quality of the software you can't deny the impact it had in such a short time.…

Ideally, the given example would be something not ajacent to the presently white-hot category of "AI agents".

Like, look at e.g. YC minus the AI and AI ajacent companies. Are those startups meaningfully more impressive or feature-rich as compared to a couple years ago?

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#287

Agentic engineering? That reads to me a little like amateur oncologist. How are you defining engineering ? Can agentic engineers adhere to a similar code of ethics that a professional engineer is sworn to uphold? https://www.nspe.org/career-growth/nspe-code-ethics-engineer...

Yes. I do "agentic engineering," primarily using Cline as it allows me to gas-and-brake the AI and review what it's doing on a granular level. So, think pair programming but my #2 is an LLM. I routinely reject turns when a given model goes off into space. I also routinely make hot edits to its changes before advancing, several times per day.

You can use these tools wisely without letting it run unverified carelessly.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#288
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"many engineers have not yet tried things that became feasible over the last months" I have heard this statement every single day for 2 years and yet we still have no companies compressing 10 years into 1 year thus exploding past all the incumbents who don't "get it".

If you want an example of a project that condensed 5 years into 6 months and exploded past the competition I suggest looking at OpenClaw. The first line of code was written on November 25th. It achieved adoption in the "personal agents" space that far exceeded the other companies that had tried the same thing. (Whether or not you trust the quality of the software you can't deny the impact it had in such a short time.…

Its trash vibecoded markdown files around pi. This exemplifies well what op’is saying. We are at the ICO stage of llms. Hopefully there wont be an nft one

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#289
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"many engineers have not yet tried things that became feasible over the last months" I have heard this statement every single day for 2 years and yet we still have no companies compressing 10 years into 1 year thus exploding past all the incumbents who don't "get it".

If you want an example of a project that condensed 5 years into 6 months and exploded past the competition I suggest looking at OpenClaw. The first line of code was written on November 25th. It achieved adoption in the "personal agents" space that far exceeded the other companies that had tried the same thing. (Whether or not you trust the quality of the software you can't deny the impact it had in such a short time.…

OpenClaw is definitely not a "5 years" project pre-AI though. That was more like a month of greenfield work compressed into a weekend -- which is still really impressive, don't get me wrong! -- but I think the point is we're not seeing mature, legacy codebases get outcompeted by new, agile, AI-driven codebases; we're seeing greenfield projects get spun up faster. Which, again, is still impressive and valuable.

If agents could really compress 10 years of development into 1 year, you'd see people making e.g. HFT platforms and becoming obscenely rich, not making a fun open-source project and getting hired by OpenAI as an employee.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#290
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, we must force these obstinate engineers to the right path! Only after getting everyone to see the light will they understand and thank us for boundless productivity!! /s Perhaps these “obstinate” engineers have good reason in their decision. And it should be their decision! To be so confident in what is “the right way (TM)” and try to force it onto others is... revealing.

Engineers that didn't move past src.v35.final.zip version control don't really have jobs today, either.

You would be absolutely shocked how many software projects are still run, to this day, without source control at all. Or automated (or manual) testing. And how many hand crafted artisanal servers are running on AWS, never to be recovered if their EC2 instance is killed for some reason.
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