Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users • Hacker News Board

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#161

Post by kimmel » Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 12:36 PM UTC

rlu wrote: post #133

simonw wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And then for a lot of the other complaints (e.g. hidden interface, icons that you don't think you can click) it is just a matter of time before people learn it. Then it will become a non-issue." That's not how usability works.

Is pinch to zoom obvious? Is left clicking obvious? Is ctrl alt delete obvious? Is spacebar to pause/resume video/music obvious? I'm no UEX expert but all of the above seem to be things that many people know how to do, yet would not seem immediately obvious at first. I am quite confident that "swiping in from the right to reveal charms/commands/options" will join the ranks of the above. It'll just take a few months o…

I'm no UEX expert..

Then let me enlighten you. Your ctrl-alt-delete example is poor due to the fact and this is backed up by a Bill Gates interview that that command was meant for debugging and was not supposed to ship in the final product. People started using it and they had to leave it in.

Some music players do not use space for pause/resume.

As for clicking and zooming, these things are so intuitive that children can learn on their own how to do these simple tasks. OLPC and other organizations air drop laptops into Africa and people who have never a seen a computer get them and teach themselves how to use it and how to read.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#162

Post by aristidb » Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 12:45 PM UTC

malkia wrote: post #77

notatoad wrote: post #19

In my opinion, the biggest failure of windows 8 is that they called it windows. If metro mode was an installable add-on for windows 7 that you could jump into whenever you wanted a simplistic or touch-friendly experience, people would love it. The usability isn't terrible on its own, it's only terrible if you try to use it while expecting a windows operating system. for example, the only being able to run one fullscr…

Trains would've been a better name. Windows Trains 8.0

Microsoft Trains for Windows Live Home Premium 8.0

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#163

Post by stan_rogers » Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 12:52 PM UTC

NZ_Matt wrote: post #17

For what it's worth I've been using Windows 8 since the RP and have been very happy with it. The key point that a lot of reviews fail to emphasize is that evrything that worked in Windows 7 is still there and works exactly how it always has. The removal of Aero and subtle improvements to explorer are nice updates for the desktop experience. The start menu was always kind off useless so I didn't take long to get used…

And I use a graphics tablet with a handful of programmable keys as my primary input device (the keyboard spends most of its time off to the side for very occasional text input and the odd rarely-used one-handed shortcut chord) and have several sets of applications (each of which is best-of-breed for a slightly different purpose) whose names start with the same set of characters (and, in at least one set of similarly-named apps, don't diverge until the tenth character). It is far quicker for me to use the start menu, since typing (or even multitouch gestures) involve putting down the stylus. Not a common use case, perhaps, but one that ought to be accommodated easily. And maybe I can bridge the gap temporarily with a third-party solution, but will that even be possible in the future?

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#164

Post by robertreddick » Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 12:52 PM UTC

potatolicious wrote: post #12

Have been using a Surface as well as a Win8 desktop for a couple of weeks now, and I have to say this is pretty accurate. When WinPhone first came out with the Metro UI I was a fan - there's a visual simplicity to it that's very appealing. After you use it for a while though the weaknesses become pretty glaring and hard to accept. It is often very hard to tell what UI elements are interactive and what are purely info…

To shut down an app in Windows 8 / RT: Left swipe in / out to get the task list; Select any other app, I use "Desktop" for instance; Left swipe in / out again - this will display the app you "were" in (that you are trying to close) in the left-side task list; Select-hold, drag right and down down to the bottom. The interface will either.. refocus to the app you are trying to close, or will actually close. In practice: Toggling first to desktop helps, and normally allows the app to close; Toggling to the Metro home screen pretty much always does not work, the app ends up not closing and taking focus. And more odd: The active-app you are in is never displayed on the left. My Microsoft friend says you don't need to close apps; that the memory management on the device / OS will "take care of itself". I find that not be the case in that closing helps free up resources, and is the only way to restart tanked apps. Lastly: When you are down to only one running app + the home screen (always running?), you cannot close any apps, you can only toggle between them.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#165

Post by cstejerean » Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 1:02 PM UTC

rogerbinns wrote: post #78

potatolicious wrote: post #12

Have been using a Surface as well as a Win8 desktop for a couple of weeks now, and I have to say this is pretty accurate. When WinPhone first came out with the Metro UI I was a fan - there's a visual simplicity to it that's very appealing. After you use it for a while though the weaknesses become pretty glaring and hard to accept. It is often very hard to tell what UI elements are interactive and what are purely info…

BTW Android tried the whole unified search thing. Back in the days of hardware buttons there was even one of the four dedicated to just search. A running app could detect the button press and bring up a standardized search interface. If the search started outside an app (eg home screen) then you get the same standard search interface. Each app could register as a search provider - responding with content relevant to…

Which iOS device do you have? Search works great for me on the iPhone 5, and click on an email search result definitely takes me to the email.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#166

Post by WayneDB » Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 1:10 PM UTC

kimmel wrote: post #161

rlu wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is pinch to zoom obvious? Is left clicking obvious? Is ctrl alt delete obvious? Is spacebar to pause/resume video/music obvious? I'm no UEX expert but all of the above seem to be things that many people know how to do, yet would not seem immediately obvious at first. I am quite confident that "swiping in from the right to reveal charms/commands/options" will join the ranks of the above. It'll just take a few months o…

I'm no UEX expert.. Then let me enlighten you. Your ctrl-alt-delete example is poor due to the fact and this is backed up by a Bill Gates interview that that command was meant for debugging and was not supposed to ship in the final product. People started using it and they had to leave it in. Some music players do not use space for pause/resume. As for clicking and zooming, these things are so intuitive that children…

And yet OS X, the OS that is lauded by many around here to have an excellent UX, has so many hidden controls that nobody could possibly remember them all.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1343

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#167

Post by jpatte » Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 1:12 PM UTC

stan_rogers wrote: post #163

NZ_Matt wrote: post #17

For what it's worth I've been using Windows 8 since the RP and have been very happy with it. The key point that a lot of reviews fail to emphasize is that evrything that worked in Windows 7 is still there and works exactly how it always has. The removal of Aero and subtle improvements to explorer are nice updates for the desktop experience. The start menu was always kind off useless so I didn't take long to get used…

And I use a graphics tablet with a handful of programmable keys as my primary input device (the keyboard spends most of its time off to the side for very occasional text input and the odd rarely-used one-handed shortcut chord) and have several sets of applications (each of which is best-of-breed for a slightly different purpose) whose names start with the same set of characters (and, in at least one set of similarly-…

You can still click at the lower left corner of your screen to switch to the start page (exactly as you would open the start menu in Win7); then if you organized your favorite apps icons on the left of this page you should still be able to open the app you want with a second click.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#168

Post by actsasbuffoon » Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 1:12 PM UTC

corporalagumbo wrote: post #95

actsasbuffoon wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What parts of Mountain Lion do you consider "a complete mess"? LaunchPad is a joke, but other than that I find Mountain Lion to be very intuitive and easy on the eyes.

1) If you use Mission Control, there's a linen background hidden behind the desktop. If you open the Notification Center, there's a linen background hidden behind the desktop. But if you change desktop spaces, there's only black - where's the linen (i.e. what happened to that permament physical textured backdrop Apple apparently decided was the bedrock of the UI?) 2) Not to mention that gross effect when you change d…

> I have no respect for the small attempts to modernise the OS

Maybe I'm getting old, but I like the slower pace that Apple has taken. Unity Shell and Windows 8 both strike me as highly ambitious but poorly executed attempts to dramatically re-imagine the desktop. Apple's approach has been more measured, and I hope it stays that way.

Maybe I'm just pessimistic about the future of touch-enabled desktop computers. I owned a tablet PC back in the day, and it was truly terrible. I have a 22 inch Cintiq which is great for art, but makes me feel like my arm is going to fall off after 20 minutes of web browsing. Touch makes perfect sense on tablets and phones, but I think that's where it ends. Only time will tell who's right.

As for clunkiness, I recommend a combination of Alfred and Moom for OS X. With a few keystrokes I can launch a half dozen applications and have them perfectly tiled across multiple desktops. Far from being slow and clunky, I've never felt more efficient!

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#169

Post by actsasbuffoon » Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 1:17 PM UTC

yen223 wrote: post #141

actsasbuffoon wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What parts of Mountain Lion do you consider "a complete mess"? LaunchPad is a joke, but other than that I find Mountain Lion to be very intuitive and easy on the eyes.

Am I the only person around here who actually likes LaunchPad? It integrates so well with Apple's lovely touchpad. Map it to your favourite hot corner, and suddenly all your apps are much easier to access.

I gave up on hot corners once multitouch gestures were introduced. If you're using a mouse with OS X then you owe it to yourself to try a trackpad. It completely transforms the experience in a way that I wouldn't have thought possible.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#170

Post by jpatte » Mon, Nov 19, 2012, 1:21 PM UTC

tvdw wrote: post #9

I've been using Windows 8 since roughly two weeks before its launch, and I agree with most of the article. In fact, I just realized that I never use a single "Modern UI" app for the simple reason that they force my entire screen (2560x1440, 27") to be filled by one app. Such a waste of space. In desktop mode I often have four 1280x720 windows on my screen. Windows 8 might just be the push I needed to switch to Linux.

What I don't understand is why you feel like you are supposed to use "Modern UI" apps on your big screen. You are not. Everything you enjoyed to do with Windows 7 is still possible with Windows 8. Just because there is an alternate way to do them does not mean you have to adopt it...