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The bottleneck was never the code

thetypicalset.com

211–220 of 446 posts

Re: The bottleneck was never the code

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the Goomba is distinct. Strawman is disingenuously representing an argument, Goomba is assuming contradictions are coming from the same person, presumably b/c it's coming to the Goomba through the same app.

> Goomba is assuming contradictions are coming from the same person, presumably b/c it's coming to the Goomba through the same app. Its because it comes from the same political faction. In general people are open about A when A seems palatable, and openly B when B seems palatable, but they almost never admit to do that when its obviously wrong to do so. That is the rational part of the fallacy, even if these are diff…

In general, hypocrisy is a pretty weak argument. It's an annoying personality trait, but consistency is a thing humans often fail at, and humans failing at holding consistent opinions is a failure of those humans, not the claims they're making. It's not quite as weak as the more non-sequitur kind of ad-hominem attack, because it does at least pertain to the argument being made, and kind of resembles a logical contradiction if you squint, but it seldom does a good job addressing the merits of the argument, rather than the arguer. It's a successful political tactic for the same reason ad hominem arguments in general are, of course, especially in the context of representative forms of government, where the person's character or competence is relevant when they're running for an office. Much less so in contexts where the merits of a position are being debated in abstract.

I think it's very silly to make the argument that "groupwise hypocrisy" is not a fallacy in such a conversation. In politics, the reality is that people have to form coalitions with people with whom they don't agree on everything, and non-political groupings are even more non-sensical, often holding people responsible for the opinions of other people who happen to share things like inborn characteristics. It's especially ridiculous to explain this with this idea that people are engaging in some kind of elaborate coordination to argue with you on the internet. Yes, some people, and indeed political parties, engage in that kind of behavior, and if you think you're arguing with something like a botnet, there are larger considerations to make about what you gain as an individual by trying to engage with such a machine at all. If I believe I'm arguing about the merits of an idea with an actual person, and I find myself reaching for something like "your group is collectively hypocritical on this issue" to make my argument, this is cause to reflect on whether I actually have any real arguments for my position, as that one is... well, essentially meaningless

I think you're trying to invoke what's commonly called a "motte-and-bailey" argument, where people argue for a maximally-defensible position when faced with serious criticism, but act as though they're proving a much less defensible version of their argument, often including a nebula of related ideas, in other contexts. This is something individuals and coordinated factions absolutely do, but again doesn't really support treating any grouping you want to draw of some kind of collective hypocrisy. Even assuming we care about hypocrisy, it seems like this kind of reasoning about nebulous groups that don't explicitly coordinate would allow making that argument about any position in any context, depending on how you draw the boundaries of the group that day. It's well-understood that you can go on the internet and find someone who believes just about any crazy thing you can think of, or find someone who makes the argument for any position poorly.

Re: The bottleneck was never the code

#212
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No because the goomba is the average of two real opinions, and the strawman is a distortion/reduction of any opinion such that its easy to argue against.

Ah, ok, so two real opinions made into a distortion. Right, I see how very dissimilar to an origin story of a strawman that is…

If I only had a brain...

Re: The bottleneck was never the code

#213

It's hilarious to me to see the same kind of engineer, who throughout my career have constantly bitched and moaned about team meetings, agile ceremonies, issue trackers, backlogs, slack, emails, design reviews, and anything else that disrupted the hours of coding "flow state" they claimed as their most essential and sacred activity to be protected at all costs, suddenly, and with no hint of shame, start preaching abo…

THIS COMMENT IS GOLD.

Another example I can point to is software security. For context, I’ve built and sold two edtech companies that taught enterprise developers about software security .. It didn’t matter how good the training content was .. ouur product replaced boring appsec video training with interactive labs, vulnerable code snippets to hack and fix .. gamification ... leaderboards .. whatever it took so they couldn’t complain about having to watch boring videos .. however the completion rates sucked .. because they just didn’t care regardless of how hard we tried ..

Now post AI .. my Linkedn is full of blogs and think pieces about how important “software threat modelling” and “cybersecurity” are, and how “coding was never the hard part.” ... suddenly, TM, something only a tiny fraction of companies actually practice, is being framed as the real challenge .. and having deep understanding of OWASP / secure design , vulnerable dependencies ..secure architecture ,, is the real bottle neck .. lol

Re: The bottleneck was never the code

#214

It's hilarious to me to see the same kind of engineer, who throughout my career have constantly bitched and moaned about team meetings, agile ceremonies, issue trackers, backlogs, slack, emails, design reviews, and anything else that disrupted the hours of coding "flow state" they claimed as their most essential and sacred activity to be protected at all costs, suddenly, and with no hint of shame, start preaching abo…

I'm not going to comment on the likely "Goomba fallacy" at work in your comment, but I just want to note:

> team meetings, agile ceremonies, issue trackers, backlogs, slack, emails, design reviews

Are frequently not:

> [important] collaborative activities

I've always been someone who disliked distractions from my "coding 'flow state' they claimed as their most essential and sacred activity to be protected at all costs" (because, you know, I was getting paid to write code and that's the only way I could actually get it done), but I also loved genuine collaborative activities (as in a small number of people, interacting with each other in a high bandwidth way, to figure something out or get on the same page).

A lot of the activities you explicitly mention are usually literal garbage for actual collaboration.

Re: The bottleneck was never the code

#215
post #205
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people I know like this are people I consider to be "advanced juniors". They are held back by their inability to work with other parts of the business and understand customer needs. In order to be successful they need to be spoon fed requirements. What I've seen from the limited sample in my orbit is that they've actually doubled down on AI and are creating little private worlds of agents and further isolating th…

Are my standards too high to expect juniors to also be able to work with other parts of the business and ask for additional requirements if needed?

No. "Plays well with others" is part of being a functional member of any engineering team that I'm on.

Re: The bottleneck was never the code

#216
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. It's annoying and disruptive to be interrupted when doing work that requires deep focus. Steering a LLM also requires deep focus. Unless you want to end up on accidentally quadratic or have a CVE named after your project.

How can it? You prompt it, then wait minutes+ for it to come back. It's the opposite of flow state.

It isn't exactly flow - but at when the prompt comes back it forces me to think. Flow is about getting into a state where I'm thinking so this is surprisingly similar. The prompt is helpful because it gives me a place to focus: does the proposed changes make sense (this is much smaller than the entire code base), and given this is done: do I know anything else that was missed.

Re: The bottleneck was never the code

#217
post #17

I think veteran engineers have always known that the real problems with velocity have always been more organizational than technical. The inability for the business to define a focused, productive roadmap has always been the problem in software engineering. Constantly jumping to the next shiny thing that yields almost no ROI but never allowing systemic tech debt to be addressed has crippled many company's I have work…

> I think veteran engineers have always known that the real problems with velocity have always been more organizational than technical.

I don't think this comment is fair or grounded. There are plenty of process bottlenecks that are created by developers. Unfortunately I have a hefty share of war stories where a tech lead's inability to draft a coherent and clear design resulted in project delays and systems riddled with accidental complexity required to patch the solution enough to work.

Developers are a part of the process and they are participants of both the good parts and the bad parts. If business requirements are not clear, it's the developer's job to work with product owners to arrive at said clarity.

Re: The bottleneck was never the code

#218
I'm finding counterexamples of this constantly now that I can have an agent rewrite large sections of my codebase that have been sorely needing it.

- Moving to a newer and more modern test library

- Refactoring my data layer so it's easier to read, based on years of organic changes that need to be baked in and simplified

- Porting some functionality to another language to vastly improve performance

I agree with the overall sentiment, but having an agent at my finger tips who can really crank out large-scale, involved code changes is unclogging quite a few backburnered todos lately for me.

Re: The bottleneck was never the code

#219
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, they hire me for a reason, whatever that may be. I want to do a good job and carry out the task because I want to get hired again by them or whatever agency is pimping me out. I've seen a lot of shit and that's my value. Whether or not the team wants to help me succeed is their political thing. And that's not invisible to management either.

You're not looking at it very empathetically. You're disregarding the concerns I floated, you expect the team that feels underwater to now stop everything to reshuffle the work scheduling to fit in a wild card all while you're calling them bad and replaceable. I mean it really sounds like you're not on their side at all. It's their job to help you succeed, apparently. From what you've said already, you don't care abo…

If he was hired to do a job, its not on the team to "trust" him. Its to incorporate him as a resource. I'm sorry but speaking strictly from a productivity standpoint, we're not here to be empathetic, we're here to deliver value to the organization.

If I'm a manager of a team thats struggling and now also sabotaging additional resources, because they havent got the right warm and fuzzies, I'm going to be looking to have some difficult conversations. I'm also going to be very critical of anyone who floats a lack of "trust" as the blocker without some concrete evidence to justify it.

Whatever concerns they might have is not for the contractor to address. They are between them and their own management who deemed them unable to deliver sufficiently.

Re: The bottleneck was never the code

#220
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can it? You prompt it, then wait minutes+ for it to come back. It's the opposite of flow state.

It isn't exactly flow - but at when the prompt comes back it forces me to think. Flow is about getting into a state where I'm thinking so this is surprisingly similar. The prompt is helpful because it gives me a place to focus: does the proposed changes make sense (this is much smaller than the entire code base), and given this is done: do I know anything else that was missed.

So you move from a maker’s schedule to a manager’s schedule. Interrupting you does not have any meaningful consequence on your ability to work because at any given moment you are not really working and when your interruption is over the prompt is still just waiting there for you.
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