Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is definitely an interesting development. While I'm saddened to see a Ruby conference canceled with a full roster of qualified speakers, I'm happier to see the pendulum on this side of perfect balance than the alternative. This problem has clearer and more positive strategies than its opposite. Edit: Whoa. I did more than 10 seconds of research and this situation is more fucked than I snap-judged. My heart goes…
I sincerely don't believe cancelling was the right choice. There were 5 speaker slots left to be filled with a December deadline to fill those slots. Why not use the controversy to attract appropriately diverse speakers with interesting and relevant proposals?
BritRuby cancelled due to a lack of racial and gender diversity
11–20 of 79 posts
Re: BritRuby cancelled due to a lack of racial and gender diversity
#12The goal of a technical presentation should not be to filter speakers via quota into race and sexuality; it should be to discuss technical things.
Re: BritRuby cancelled due to a lack of racial and gender diversity
#13Out of curiosity, why are the complainers in this case not being called out for their own racism/discrimination? The fact that a panel consists of white males, straight males, or purple elephants is not in itself evidence of discrimination. It is entirely possible that these were the most qualified of all applicants to have submitted to this conference. Without knowing the details of the applicant pool, anyone scream…
Re: BritRuby cancelled due to a lack of racial and gender diversity
#14Out of curiosity, why are the complainers in this case not being called out for their own racism/discrimination? The fact that a panel consists of white males, straight males, or purple elephants is not in itself evidence of discrimination. It is entirely possible that these were the most qualified of all applicants to have submitted to this conference. Without knowing the details of the applicant pool, anyone scream…
There's another definition, which is that racist actions are actions that's designed to maintain & reinforce the institutionalised power structure among races. Right now, if modern UK life was a video game, "white male" would be an easier difficulty level than "black male". There are statistically less problems for the "white male" group. Racist actions is talk that re-enforced that imbalance, and attempts to undo the power imbalance is not racist. This definition is harder for some people to accept because it means that you need to look at yourself and think about what power imbalances you might be benefiting from, and it means that affirmative action is not racist, and attempts to stop is could be construed as racist (since stopping affirmative action can re-enforce power imbalances). This is the definition I use.
So no, complaining about the lack of non-white people is not racist.
Re: BritRuby cancelled due to a lack of racial and gender diversity
#15Out of curiosity, why are the complainers in this case not being called out for their own racism/discrimination? The fact that a panel consists of white males, straight males, or purple elephants is not in itself evidence of discrimination. It is entirely possible that these were the most qualified of all applicants to have submitted to this conference. Without knowing the details of the applicant pool, anyone scream…
Re: BritRuby cancelled due to a lack of racial and gender diversity
#16Out of curiosity, why are the complainers in this case not being called out for their own racism/discrimination? The fact that a panel consists of white males, straight males, or purple elephants is not in itself evidence of discrimination. It is entirely possible that these were the most qualified of all applicants to have submitted to this conference. Without knowing the details of the applicant pool, anyone scream…
There are several definitions of racism, one is essentially "making references to someone's race and implying everyone in that group is the same (in some attribute)", or more simply "anything based on race". Lots of people like this definition because it's a nice, simple and objective defintion and it means black people in the UK can be racist to white people, or that affirmative action is racist. I think this is the…
Re: BritRuby cancelled due to a lack of racial and gender diversity
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is definitely an interesting development. While I'm saddened to see a Ruby conference canceled with a full roster of qualified speakers, I'm happier to see the pendulum on this side of perfect balance than the alternative. This problem has clearer and more positive strategies than its opposite. Edit: Whoa. I did more than 10 seconds of research and this situation is more fucked than I snap-judged. My heart goes…
This shambles could only happen in Britain. Senior politicians get accused of being paedophiles by journalists with no evidence. Politicians routinely steal from public coffers, and don't even lose their place in Parliament (even though some were sent to prison). The country is awash with video surveillance, yet trying to get the police to respond to a crime report is like swimming upstream. A christian preacher who…
The most ardent opponents are those who hate gay people or black people and want to continue to shout vile things without repuccision.
Re: BritRuby cancelled due to a lack of racial and gender diversity
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are several definitions of racism, one is essentially "making references to someone's race and implying everyone in that group is the same (in some attribute)", or more simply "anything based on race". Lots of people like this definition because it's a nice, simple and objective defintion and it means black people in the UK can be racist to white people, or that affirmative action is racist. I think this is the…
Would complaining about a lack of males entering medical school or presenting at a conference on child care be discriminatory?
Yes we should probably do something to get more men into child care & nursing & primary school teaching. that wouldn't be sexist.
And yes, more men should do traditionally feminine activities. I'm male and took up crochet recently. I can empathise with women who work in tech. Tech is all male. Crochet is all female.
Re: BritRuby cancelled due to a lack of racial and gender diversity
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is definitely an interesting development. While I'm saddened to see a Ruby conference canceled with a full roster of qualified speakers, I'm happier to see the pendulum on this side of perfect balance than the alternative. This problem has clearer and more positive strategies than its opposite. Edit: Whoa. I did more than 10 seconds of research and this situation is more fucked than I snap-judged. My heart goes…
This shambles could only happen in Britain. Senior politicians get accused of being paedophiles by journalists with no evidence. Politicians routinely steal from public coffers, and don't even lose their place in Parliament (even though some were sent to prison). The country is awash with video surveillance, yet trying to get the police to respond to a crime report is like swimming upstream. A christian preacher who…
The problem with a 'it's political correctness gone mad!' argument is it ignores the context in which those laws were enacted. Racism and sexism were systematic and endemic in the UK during much of the 20th century.
You say that "political correctness had taken hold in local government by the early 1980s", but you don't mention that the reason for this was that during the early 1980s there were numerous serious race riots throughout the UK.
Hate speech and anti-discrimination laws have drastically improved the lives of millions of people in the UK. I don't pretend that discrimination has been eliminated, but you simply can't deny the fact that British society today is considerably less racist and sexist than it was thirty years ago.
Now, there is a side effect to this. Because the UK doesn't have explicit free speech protection mistakes have been made enforcing those laws. Sometimes people mis-interpret them, in the same way people mis-understand health and safety laws. But I would argue these costs are far out-weighed by the benefit that a ethnically diverse and accepting society has brought. I see that since I started typing this someone has already replied to you saying how much their life has improved due to these laws.
Getting back to your original point: I don't think this is a UK specific problem. I could probably cherry-pick similar examples from the US and other EU countries and come up with equally compelling arguments that "this shambles could only happen in [X]".
This is obviously a very emotional topic for many people. I don't expect this reply to change your mind, and I fully expect people to disagree with me. All I really want to get at is that as someone who also lives in the UK I disagree with your viewpoint.
Re: BritRuby cancelled due to a lack of racial and gender diversity
#20Out of curiosity, why are the complainers in this case not being called out for their own racism/discrimination? The fact that a panel consists of white males, straight males, or purple elephants is not in itself evidence of discrimination. It is entirely possible that these were the most qualified of all applicants to have submitted to this conference. Without knowing the details of the applicant pool, anyone scream…
There are several definitions of racism, one is essentially "making references to someone's race and implying everyone in that group is the same (in some attribute)", or more simply "anything based on race". Lots of people like this definition because it's a nice, simple and objective defintion and it means black people in the UK can be racist to white people, or that affirmative action is racist. I think this is the…
So yes, by your own definition, complaining about the lack of non-white people would be racist -- but worth it.
It's also worth noting that there is a difference between complaining about a lack of non-white people and complaining about the existence of a certain amount of white people on a panel.