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Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

theguardian.com

31–40 of 713 posts

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#31

I didn’t expect to open the comments and find people who were pro beating children on Hacker News. I find this abuse horrific and you should speak to a therapist if you think this is okay. Absolutely barbaric behavior.

I find this attitude completely western and out of touch with culture and actual experience of people living in a society that operate differently.

In my own personal and shared experience; having grown up in a culture where corporal punishment is a given. You found out it can be administered in the most humane way possible. And as a matter of fact, a couple minute after the entire thing you are back to talking with friends and siblings and laughing it off.

Sure, I didn't love being caned, nor did anyone I knew, but I will say it was a more effective and better guide towards good behaviour than words alone or other approaches

Nobody I have met loved being canned as a child, and at the same time no one turned out worst from it. And as much as Africa seems to be a lawless place, schools are very orderly; bullying by peers is rare, students generally do not exhibit anti-social, rebellious or rude behaviors to teachers or parents.

I'm certain the views of people who grew up in Africa and certain part of Asia, where caning is still practised, will be quite different from those of people who didn't.

P.S. My views are on parents and teachers caning kids or young teenagers.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#32
The only times I got hit were when I deserved it, was asking for it, and pushed that adult over the tipping point. So that was all completely just.

My peers learned they could trigger me in the same way, and were always careful to be subtle and passive, lest they also get punished. I suppose that is also, street justice.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#33
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After seeing with my own two eyes how soft touch policing and parenting leads to a shitty society for everyone I’m completely in favour of this. Singapore, Japan, among other Asian countries are safe and prosperous for a reason - if you do no wrong, you have nothing to fear. In London we recently had a swarm of youths raid supermarkets and shoplift. Most of them got off scot free. Even tenured criminals are getting o…

It won’t work, we have literal piles of research showing that severity of punishment is not an effective deterrent, and to an incredible degree for children. They tend to either not think of consequences, or have youthful hubris and be certain they won’t get caught (even when they have in the past, I got spanked numerous times for the same exact things). I would go so far as to bet it will have the opposite effect. N…

Assuming these sociological studies are robust (which they're likely not as sociological studies have poor reproducibility) am I also supposed to reject the evidence of my eyes and ears? Families have been destroyed by terrorism in the UK, by terrorists who have been given second and third chances.

To link this back to the original topic: discipline of children is part of a wider topic of how as a society we discipline those who fall out of line. Discipline in society determines the kind of future we're shaping for ourselves.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do agree we shouldn't limit it to children! But I don't think the boss/employee relationship should involve violence though because firing someone is simple and effective. But if someone is doing something bad for their community that has no obvious other consequences? Then yeah, it absolutely should be an option. These rules should be implemented locally at a town or city level. No need to enforce the same set of…

I don't understand your view here. You want people to take care of problems/injusitice by violence but you also want this violence to be limited to "someone doing something bad for their community"? How can that be enforced at all. Like if you are doing something good for your community, the other community feels slighted and gets a free pass to... beat you? Like I dont understand what you're saying at all because it…

There ought to be an understanding that the school has leeway to use a ruler on misbehaving children without the police being involved. That's what I meant when I said stop getting police involved in everything. I'm not talking about vigilante justice.

An example that requires police to be involved: Small Town A has a law stating that anyone dealing drugs must be caned for the first offense. Someone deals drugs in Small Town, so police catch them and cane them.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pain is a highly evolved way of telling humans to change their behavior. Why would we choose not to use such an excellent tool, within reasonable boundaries? Also, do you think the victims of bullies have a pleasant experience? Being merciful to the bullies enables them and is cruel to their victims.

[flagged]

> "Rehabilitation and figuring out why they are bullying is the correct response in a civilized society."

Then why doesn't the "correct response" work in practice? We are clearly not seeing its effectiveness in real life.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a friends school in Denmark the teacher could decide that your family had to host a party for all the kids at the family home, so they could get to know each other better, and that was repeated until all involved parties stoped misbehaving.

Good when all parents are able to host such party. I would say that in Poland, most of parents with a misbehaving kid are barely able to throw a party for their kid and several of his/her friends. Many times people complain about the cost of school supplies for their kids already.

I think the cost of doing this as well as the time you need to invest are what puts pressure on you.

I’ll have to ask what would happen if you do not comply.

The Danish are nice people, but they really do not like if you break the social rules, so I guess it would get intense verry fast.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#37
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After seeing with my own two eyes how soft touch policing and parenting leads to a shitty society for everyone I’m completely in favour of this. Singapore, Japan, among other Asian countries are safe and prosperous for a reason - if you do no wrong, you have nothing to fear. In London we recently had a swarm of youths raid supermarkets and shoplift. Most of them got off scot free. Even tenured criminals are getting o…

My sister had an interesting take on this: "These countries also directly take care of their citizens, which I think is an important factor. Other societies will let you be homeless and say it is your fault for being broke even when employers terminate you purely for economic reasons or when there simply aren't enough jobs to go around. That backdrop contributes to desperation and predatory mindsets." I disagree with…

There are many western states with welfare state. Do you think otherwise?

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#38
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After seeing with my own two eyes how soft touch policing and parenting leads to a shitty society for everyone I’m completely in favour of this. Singapore, Japan, among other Asian countries are safe and prosperous for a reason - if you do no wrong, you have nothing to fear. In London we recently had a swarm of youths raid supermarkets and shoplift. Most of them got off scot free. Even tenured criminals are getting o…

It won’t work, we have literal piles of research showing that severity of punishment is not an effective deterrent, and to an incredible degree for children. They tend to either not think of consequences, or have youthful hubris and be certain they won’t get caught (even when they have in the past, I got spanked numerous times for the same exact things). I would go so far as to bet it will have the opposite effect. N…

> TLDR Singapore and Japan have low crime rates that likely have nothing to do with severe punishments

Can you elaborate ? Singapore has 4 ethnicities, 4 religions, and 4 languages living together as a developed nation in a small city which could be considered a marvel in any other part of the world. Also, apart from the US, and perhaps UAE, Canada, is the only nation with a policy allowing a sizable skilled immigrant population. With such a diverse set of folks, one could argue that the only common denominator is the cane, a language everyone understands.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#39

I didn’t expect to open the comments and find people who were pro beating children on Hacker News. I find this abuse horrific and you should speak to a therapist if you think this is okay. Absolutely barbaric behavior.

A few days ago an older teenager tried to steal my phone on the street, I kicked the shit out of him. What else should I have done? Just let the kid take the next guys phone? If I’d called the police, they’d almost certainly have told me on the phone to let the shouting kid go. There would have been zero consequences for him, and possibly some for me. I genuinely did that kid a favour.

In Germany you can force somebody to stay until police arrives but unnecessary violence is forbidden

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#40
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Rehabilitation and figuring out why they are bullying is the correct response in a civilized society. Your so called “civilized societies” have continuously failed at this though. You can’t keep failing and then demand your method is the correct method.

How Germany or Denmark or Sweden failed?
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