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Knitting bullshit

katedaviesdesigns.com

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Re: Knitting bullshit

#31

Post by ossopite »

augment_me wrote: post #25

I like the blog but the premise of the blog is an engineering/epistemological perspective on the craft. The writer clearly cares more about the process, technique and history more than the feeling and validation. It could be, that a big part of the the future of hobby's and entertainment in this way is the feeling and validation over the actual performance. Or it can be that a massive amount of people find their valu…

The idea that we could create a world where 'a big part of the future of hobbies and entertainment' is people listening to meaningless words made up by machines that help them feel good about themselves sounds horrifying. How could anybody feel ok about that? What would it say about the society we've built?

Re: Knitting bullshit

#32

Post by latexr »

praptak wrote: post #16

I remember this kind of slop from times well before the LLM explosion. I'm specifically thinking of a print magazine that was designed to make you feel like you are a smart reader of science articles, without any useful information about the actual science or technology.

> I remember this kind of slop from times well before the LLM explosion.

Even if that were true (which I don’t think it is, this is a different kind of worthless content), you most definitely don’t remember it at this scale, and that’s a major point.

Re: Knitting bullshit

#33

Post by pjc50 »

augment_me wrote: post #25

I like the blog but the premise of the blog is an engineering/epistemological perspective on the craft. The writer clearly cares more about the process, technique and history more than the feeling and validation. It could be, that a big part of the the future of hobby's and entertainment in this way is the feeling and validation over the actual performance. Or it can be that a massive amount of people find their valu…

So .. I think we need to ask a deceptively simple question here, which is: is knitting real?

I'll add in an aside to this, which is not only are there fake knitting podcasts there are fake knitting and crochet patterns, which is a problem because people get a substantial way through making them only to discover that they don't work. In some cases the giveaway is that the supposed final image isn't physically possible, like the images in this article, but the fakers can use a real stolen image and just spam a pattern underneath it.

So: what is the knitting that is real? It has to be the use of your hands, needles, and yarn to produce a physical object, right?

The podcasts work towards something else. The identity of "being a knitter". This is a form of "hobby" that was already not unusual, that of discussing a thing without ever bothering to actually do it. Photographers are especially bad at this: too many lenses, not enough photographs. They've also got comprehensively run over by AI, because you can just generate the photographs now. Same for "authors".

But ultimately all these pleasant sensations aren't backed by a connection to the real. If you're going to talk about the history of knitting, shouldn't it be the real, evidenced history? As done by real (usually) women? Otherwise you're just knitting a pleasant fantasy for yourself.

The AI approach is "wireheading": the logical conclusion of all of that would be to find a means of inserting a wire in your head that provides constant pleasant sensations. Achieving happiness through a constant feed of generated images is less effective, but it's the same order of things.

(see also: authenticity in food, which could easily turn into another ten thousand words)

Re: Knitting bullshit

#34

Post by pjc50 »

tovej wrote: post #14
dsign wrote: post #10

TL;DR: there are brainrot farms with help from AI. But I saw this one coming three or four years ago. Actually, I've been listening to AI-generated brainrot music. I prefer it to some human-generated brainrot music (there's "I Hate Boys" from Christina Aguilera. Sorry if you are a fan). Brainrot serves a specific social purpose: relieving stress, incoherently winning elections. It's a kind of drug that dulls the dang…

Are you serious when you connect anti-AI sentiment to anti-science sentiment? To me, they are opposite sentiments, and my experience discussing AI with others supports this. The most pro-AI people I meet are very far removed from science, and my research colleagues are definitely more critical of AI than not.

AI's tendency to emit unsourced, untrue statements with authority is about the most unscientific thing you can get.

AI is scientism: presenting science-flavoured things as a cultural marker.

Re: Knitting bullshit

#35

Post by AlecSchueler »

globular-toast wrote: post #4

Why does this site want to access apps and services on my local network? On topic, I do wonder how "the market" is going to sort this out. At this moment I'm leaning towards just banning this shit, but maybe there is a better way?

> I do wonder how "the market" is going to sort this out

Unlikely to do a better job than it did with anything else.

Re: Knitting bullshit

#36

Post by wvbdmp »

praptak wrote: post #16

I remember this kind of slop from times well before the LLM explosion. I'm specifically thinking of a print magazine that was designed to make you feel like you are a smart reader of science articles, without any useful information about the actual science or technology.

Yes, the article acknowledges this in the first paragraph by citing Harry Frankfurt’s „On Bullshit“ (1986). Of course bullshit (as well as even more insidious misinformation/propaganda) have always been around, but the incredible advances in its production and dissemination are worth considering. At some point, sheer quantity turns into its own quality. Indeed I would argue these issues have always been underconsidered. The article is a kind of inoculation against bullshit that every generation requires again and again. People aren’t born nearly skeptical enough, and the game keeps ever changing.

I actually don’t think the article is sufficiently vehement in calling out just how brain-frying this is. And how destructive on a societal level. The razor’s edge between being too uncritical and too cynical is hella narrow.

Re: Knitting bullshit

#37

Post by augment_me »

ossopite wrote: post #31
augment_me wrote: post #25

I like the blog but the premise of the blog is an engineering/epistemological perspective on the craft. The writer clearly cares more about the process, technique and history more than the feeling and validation. It could be, that a big part of the the future of hobby's and entertainment in this way is the feeling and validation over the actual performance. Or it can be that a massive amount of people find their valu…

The idea that we could create a world where 'a big part of the future of hobbies and entertainment' is people listening to meaningless words made up by machines that help them feel good about themselves sounds horrifying. How could anybody feel ok about that? What would it say about the society we've built?

It would say that society changes, and people who were not used to a new world get upset about it, as it has always been throughout the entire history of humanity.

We were used to having psychologists and doctors in person, now the most common form is to have it through apps, and the younger generation does not care, it's in fact more efficient to get a prescription that you like than to spend time going places and having in-person meetings. But older generation finds it hollowing out and horrifying.

You need to accept that society moves on, and it can look different from your perspective.

Re: Knitting bullshit

#38

Post by augment_me »

pjc50 wrote: post #33
augment_me wrote: post #25

I like the blog but the premise of the blog is an engineering/epistemological perspective on the craft. The writer clearly cares more about the process, technique and history more than the feeling and validation. It could be, that a big part of the the future of hobby's and entertainment in this way is the feeling and validation over the actual performance. Or it can be that a massive amount of people find their valu…

So .. I think we need to ask a deceptively simple question here, which is: is knitting real? I'll add in an aside to this, which is not only are there fake knitting podcasts there are fake knitting and crochet patterns , which is a problem because people get a substantial way through making them only to discover that they don't work. In some cases the giveaway is that the supposed final image isn't physically possibl…

I am with you until you make this assumption:

> But ultimately all these pleasant sensations aren't backed by a connection to the real. If you're going to talk about the history of knitting, shouldn't it be the real, evidenced history? As done by real (usually) women? Otherwise you're just knitting a pleasant fantasy for yourself.

If the real is the feeling you get from listening to the podcast or identifying with a subculture, then that is the real for that person. Factual, grounded information is just one take. If it was not this way, we would have much less myths, religions, etc historically.

People will feel the same degree of joy and completion when the final word of the podcast is read like you feel when you finish a really complex piece of work.

Re: Knitting bullshit

#39

Post by ratmice »

augment_me wrote: post #25

I like the blog but the premise of the blog is an engineering/epistemological perspective on the craft. The writer clearly cares more about the process, technique and history more than the feeling and validation. It could be, that a big part of the the future of hobby's and entertainment in this way is the feeling and validation over the actual performance. Or it can be that a massive amount of people find their valu…

Can't wear feelings and validation...

Re: Knitting bullshit

#40

Post by dmd »

latexr wrote: post #30
siddboots wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a long time I thought that the AdSense business model was ultimately doomed because I assumed that people hate ads as much as I do. It turns out I was just wrong about what most people are willing to put up with.

I remember visiting a friend over a decade ago, and for some reason I had to use their computer for a bit. I was immediately thrown aback by all the ads everywhere and installed an ad blocker before anything else. They were very grateful, but the part that surprised me was they were annoyed by the ads but never thought to look for some way around it. It never even crossed their minds it could be done or to search for…

All human progress in history has been due to a VERY small handful of people who think “this is bullshit, things could be better”.

The vast majority of people accept what they see as the way things are and it never occurs to them that things could be different.

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