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Two millionth electric car registered as market rebounds from tax changes

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Re: Two millionth electric car registered as market rebounds from tax changes

#241

Post by fragmede »

mschild wrote: post #213
londons_explore wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still gives decent efficiency improvements. You can always run the ICE at most efficient RPM. Never need to idle it, etc. You can also have a much smaller engine for a much bigger car, since you only need to cover average not peak power usage. You also in most designs eliminate the gearbox.

If you charge the battery, sure. Most people simply don't. Data collected across 600.000 vehicles in Europe show that most people don't and that emissions are just a smidge under typical ICE vehicles. If you factor in the high emissions produced during battery productions it looks to be an overall bad package. The idea itself is certainly good but the real world simply doesn't show it. https://www.evshift.com/368695/…

You have to factor in regerative braking. Toyota's had ~25 years to get their system dialed in. Hybrid is worth it unless you're only ever doing freeway speeds flat out with no braking.

Re: Two millionth electric car registered as market rebounds from tax changes

#242

Post by rootusrootus »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #166
rootusrootus wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tend to forget how good we have it That is an interesting perspective. We do not forget how good we have it, because we choose not to put high taxes on gasoline and diesel. Do drivers in the UK tend to forget that taxes are more than half the retail price they pay at the pump? Sometimes way over half. That is a policy decision.

In the US, roads are paid for by other taxes instead. Property taxes for local roads, and general fund monies (income, sales, and inflation) for highways. Unfortunately that hides the real cost of using the roads, and makes it harder for people to make good choices. This seems unlikely to change though.

I think it is a complicated issue. People who do not drive still benefit from having a road going to their house. Either for deliveries, or for emergency vehicles, or whatever personal transportation they do end up using. So we want to spread the cost around a bit so everyone is paying something, in a perfect world as close as possible to how much they benefit from it.

I imagine it also varies somewhat across the US. Locally, our city does not use property taxes for road maintenance, we have a pavement fee which is billed through the utilities system (same one that handles water & sewer, for example). Plus gas tax from the state. It could be argued that the distinction between the pavement fee and property taxes is subtle, though.

Re: Two millionth electric car registered as market rebounds from tax changes

#243

Post by rootusrootus »

lostlogin wrote: post #164
rootusrootus wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tend to forget how good we have it That is an interesting perspective. We do not forget how good we have it, because we choose not to put high taxes on gasoline and diesel. Do drivers in the UK tend to forget that taxes are more than half the retail price they pay at the pump? Sometimes way over half. That is a policy decision.

Depending on where this crisis goes, it’ll be interesting to see what effect it has. America seems to have a lot of large vehicles that use a lot of fuel. The UK less so. The tax will have played a part in this (how much?).

I hope we can get the kinks worked out. Even in many 'blue' states, we have created a situation where the road maintenance tax paid by EV owners is twice or more what the typical ICEV driver is paying. I sort of expected that in 'red' states, since punishing EV owners is a political priority, but we see that same crap in Oregon & Washington, for example.

Re: Two millionth electric car registered as market rebounds from tax changes

#244

Post by bluGill »

pmg101 wrote: post #231
physicsguy wrote: post #56

The biggest seller of EVs here is the salary sacrifice schemes that give a huge discount to high earners, especially those with kids. Imagine you're on taxable income of £120k and have two chidlren in nursery. Currently you get no help with childcare costs from the government. From my own experience it's ~£6000 subsidy per child. You can currently take out an EV salary sacrifice scheme for ~£600 per month (pre tax),…

Your car isn't 'effectively free', because you could sacrifice all £20k into the pension, paying no tax on it, and get the £12k in childcare subsidies because your income is It still might be desirable, but it isn't free.

If your income is that high the pension is likely something you have anyway

Re: Two millionth electric car registered as market rebounds from tax changes

#245

Post by oblio »

washingupliquid wrote: post #103
oblio wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they could buy a super cheap SH EV when their current ICE car stops working.

And if they rent or otherwise don't own a home with a driveway? In the UK with its strict electrical codes, your charger must be installed by a loiscensed electrician. So add £1k right there. Your money saving effort suddenly becomes a major inconvenience to fuel your car.

[dead]

Re: Two millionth electric car registered as market rebounds from tax changes

#246

Post by bluGill »

appointment wrote: post #236
traderj0e wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That lists the Ford F-series as #1, not the F-150 Lightning which is 1.3% of that per https://www.fromtheroad.ford.com/content/dam/fordmediasite/u... . I've seen about 3 ever. Even the F-series popularity is kinda overstated by this because other cars are more fragmented.

I think they were trying to say that it's surprising the Lightning sold so poorly considering the popularity of the ICE version. I do think F-150 buyers tend to be more conservative than average car buyers and more receptive to anti-EV FUD for both political and cultural reasons.

Trucks are also more likely to be used to tow at least once in a while. Electric range does poorly there

Re: Two millionth electric car registered as market rebounds from tax changes

#247

Post by dalyons »

jeffbee wrote: post #235
dalyons wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its been widely reported on. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/feb/18/plug-in-... https://electrek.co/2026/02/19/biggest-study-yet-shows-plug-... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/oct/16/plug-in-... the link to the underlying most recent fraunhofer study referred to by the first two seems broken sadly, so i cant get the breakdown by manufacturer anymore. But the data on aggregate is clear - on a…

You are not addressing the claim that PHEVs can't reach highway speeds on batteries. That is a ridiculous claim, and it is false. You will not be able to name even one PHEV on the market with this limitation, because they do not exist.

its acceleration that causes them to drop out of EV mode, when the weak EV drives cant produce enough power. Can you accelerate all the way to highway speed in real world driving without it dropping out? for some yes, for many no, from the guardian article:

"Even when the cars were driven in electric mode, the analysis found that levels of pollution were well above official estimates. The researchers said this was because electric motors were not strong enough to operate alone, with their engines burning fossil fuels for almost one-third of the distance travelled in electric mode."

The manufacturers dont list this admittedly complicated crossover, so you cant say whether one does or doesnt from a spec sheet. The aggregate data is clear though.

Re: Two millionth electric car registered as market rebounds from tax changes

#248

Post by bluGill »

dalyons wrote: post #240
appointment wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, running electric only at slow speeds is still good, because it's slow, stop-and-go driving that benefits the most from electric.

except, as the data shows, thats not enough to make much emissions difference.

I find that strange just looking at my current PHEV the engine now is at 75,000 miles or what my previous one was at only 30,000 miles. Most trips we barely use the intent if we use it at all, but every once in a while we do go on the long road trips. Plus, they are great for Americans who normally don't do those long trips, but they don't get rained to anxiety or any other issues with charging.

Re: Two millionth electric car registered as market rebounds from tax changes

#249

Post by tzs »

mrob wrote: post #200
londons_explore wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still gives decent efficiency improvements. You can always run the ICE at most efficient RPM. Never need to idle it, etc. You can also have a much smaller engine for a much bigger car, since you only need to cover average not peak power usage. You also in most designs eliminate the gearbox.

Only true for a plug-in hybrid with a series drivechain (a.k.a. "extended range electric vehicle"). The more common type has two parallel drivechains linked with clutches, so you still have all the drawbacks of a conventional internal combustion engine drivechain when you're using it.

> The more common type has two parallel drivechains linked with clutches, so you still have all the drawbacks of a conventional internal combustion engine drivechain when you're using it

I don't know about the whole world, but in both the US and Europe nearly half of the hybrids on the road are from Toyota, so unless nearly everything else is two parallel drive chains linked with clutches whatever Toyota does is the more common type.

Toyota uses a series-parallel system that works by having a planetary gear system that connects the ICE, a large electric motor, a small electric motor, and a drive shaft all together.

The planetary gear system functions as a power splitting device and a continuously variable transmission. It lets them direct power flow in a bunch of different ways. Here's a summary based on Wikipedia. (MB == the bigger battery, 12V == the regular 12V batter, ICE == the ICE engine, MG1 == the smaller electric motor, MG2 == the larger electric motor):

• Aux power: MB -> DC/DC converter -> 12V

• Charge: ICE -> MG1 -> MB

• EV drive: MB -> MG2 -> wheels

• Moderate acceleration: ICE -> wheels, ICE -> MG1 -> MG2 -> wheels

• Highway: ICE -> wheels, ICE -> MG1 -> MB

• Heavy power, such as on steep hills: ICE -> wheels, ICE -> MG1 -> MB, ICE -> MG1 -> MG2 -> wheels

• Max power: ICE -> wheels, ICE -> MG1 -> MG2 -> wheels, MB -> MG2 -> wheels

• Regenerative braking: wheels -> MG2 -> MB

• B-mode braking: Wheels -> MG2 -> MB, Wheels -> MG1 -> ICE

This is a big part of why Toyota hybrids are at the top of reliability rankings. Compared to a pure ICE they replace the clutch, the transmission, the starter motor, the alternator, the reverse gear set, and the flywheel with the planetary gear power splitting device. the two electric motors, and electronics. The power splitting device has very few movings parts--just the gears themselves, a pawl that can mechanically lock the gears when parked, and fluid pumps. The gears only move by rotating, unlike in a conventional transmission where they also change position. This makes their hybrids mechanically much simpler than a pure ICE.

Re: Two millionth electric car registered as market rebounds from tax changes

#250

Post by bluGill »

rootusrootus wrote: post #130
joshl32532 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most homes in US built after 1980s(?) have electrical panels with 240V. It's used for dryer, stove etc.

Most? You mean all . 240V [0] as been the standard in the US basically since electrification started in the late 19th century. 120V has for all practical purposes never been a thing, it has always been an artifact of split-phase 240V. A deliberate choice to offer two voltages to every consumer. [0] Okay, technically 240V did not become official until around 1967, but the split-phase design was there from the beginnin…

In tge early days they did sometimes wire 120 only houses. That was mostly done before WWII
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