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I'm scared about biological computing

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Re: I'm scared about biological computing

#91

Post by [deleted] »

philips wrote: post #40
dasyatidprime wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the source line at the end representing there? I've read The Restaurant at the End of the Universe , and while it definitely contains (and I see it as a major cultural anchor for) animals bred to desire being eaten and be able to say so, it doesn't contain that particular scene (at least in the version I read). Is that line Baggini noting that his scene was inspired by the Adams book?

Baggini is the source of the quote he just references the concept was from Adams at the end. I copy/pasted this from the book.

[deleted]

Re: I'm scared about biological computing

#92

Post by azan_ »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #78
azan_ wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't consciousness phenomenon that's literally derived from human experience? How can you have any definition of consciousness that says humans do not possess it, it's contradictory.

>How can you have any definition of consciousness that says humans do not possess it, I'm not obligated to prove the negative. >Isn't consciousness phenomenon that's literally derived from human experience? You grew up watching and seeing all the various illusions caused by how your brain works/malfunctions, but this is the one experience you're sure is the real deal? The one telling you that it's a scientific fact t…

> You grew up watching and seeing all the various illusions caused by how your brain works/malfunctions, but this is the one experience you're sure is the real deal? The one telling you that it's a scientific fact that you have a woo-woo spirit in your skull, and that neuroscientists are going to find it any day now?

No, that's your projection, I did not make any of these claims. I'm sure I have consciousness. I don't know how it works, if it's "real deal" (what does it even mean?), if its woo-woo spirit and if neuroscientists will ever be able to find. What we know is that humans experience it (I'll instantly clarify - it doesn't mean that non-humans do not experience it) hence definition which excludes humans will always make zero sense.

Re: I'm scared about biological computing

#93

Post by boogieknite »

cassianoleal wrote: post #64
boogieknite wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as an unintentional and perhaps unethical vegetarian of many years who hasn't read this book: eating dead things gives me the creeps because it makes me consider my own death and consumption which is unappetizing

So you only eat living things?

only eat live pikmin

Re: I'm scared about biological computing

#94

Post by Tharre »

slibhb wrote: post #60

I read an interesting book about consciousness recently: The Hidden Spring by Mark Solms. Solms argues, I think convincingly, that consciousness fundamentally has to do with emotions and not cognition. Consciousness is not produced by the cortex but rather by the brainstem, where signals from all over the body converge (e.g. pain, hunger, itchiness, etc). If that argument is true then a petri-dish of neurons is unlik…

> Consciousness is not produced by the cortex but rather by the brainstem, where signals from all over the body converge (e.g. pain, hunger, itchiness, etc).

Which just begs the question of how pain or hunger is any different from a reward function, the very thing neural networks are based on. Or how it's even different from fungi growing towards food (pleasure), while avoiding salt (pain).

Re: I'm scared about biological computing

#95

Post by the_af »

JK-Swizzle wrote: post #86
vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did Priscilla also want to be living in absolute misery every single day of her life? The way animals are treated while they are alive is my main objection to our farming practices and the reason why i don’t eat meat.

I believe you are missing the forest for the trees. It is bringing up the question of what defines self will. It is unrelated to veganism in all but text. An easy example is dogs. We have bred dogs for centuries to love doing work for us. If they hated doing the work, it would be easy to call it cruel. If they loved it by nature, it would be easy to call it kind. But since we created them into a thing that loves the…

> Dogs we changed by accident

(I know your point wasn't about dogs either, it just reminded me of something).

I love Neil de Grasse Tyson's line in Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey:

"This wolf has discovered what a branch of its ancestors figured out some 15.000 years ago... an excellent survival strategy: the domestication of humans."

Re: I'm scared about biological computing

#96

Post by Imnimo »

>But this is where the line slightly blurs in my head. Did we possibly just build the first human biocomputer and immediately put it in a simulated hell, playing the same game on loop, forever? Using the same reward mechanisms we use for LLMs?

This description does not seem to really match what was done in the Doom demo, and makes me skeptical that the author has actually looked into the details.

Re: I'm scared about biological computing

#97

Post by robot-wrangler »

Imnimo wrote: post #96

>But this is where the line slightly blurs in my head. Did we possibly just build the first human biocomputer and immediately put it in a simulated hell, playing the same game on loop, forever? Using the same reward mechanisms we use for LLMs? This description does not seem to really match what was done in the Doom demo, and makes me skeptical that the author has actually looked into the details.

> skeptical that the author has actually looked into the details.

Nevermind the experiment.. same deal for a lot of people who are only interested enough to offer opinions about consciousness and theory-of-mind without doing any of the boring background reading.

The bottom line in TFA is maybe just about unapologetic carbon-chauvinism. But although OP has "been in the AI space since ChatGPT first dropped" and "bothered by this for months", they don't seem aware of terms or the usual problems with this position. Your average non-technical scifi reader has a more nuanced take than AI bros puffing up blogs for linked-in traffic

Re: I'm scared about biological computing

#98

Post by tomrod »

marjipan200 wrote: post #82

The mind of the neuro-materialist is a radio so impressed with its own receiver that it's convinced it is the broadcasting tower

The mind of the dualist is a radio so uncomfortable with its own circuitry that it invents a broadcasting tower to explain the music.

Re: I'm scared about biological computing

#99

Post by codingdave »

AntiDyatlov wrote: post #55

Yeah, we're totally fucked, there is no scientific theory that can tell you what is and isn't conscious. For all we know, my laptop, not running any LLM is conscious and always has been. Or my chair. Or a proton. This consciousness thing is a nasty problem for the scientific worldview.

... which is exactly how we know that LLMs are not conscious. We can't really explain consciousness. We can absolutely explain LLMs. The math is heavy and massive, but explainable. We can explain it layer-by-layer until we show that at its most basic level, it is still just a series of 0s and 1s.
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