Earlier quoted context omitted.
"We make software just like how Ford makes cars". People who say this kind of thing probably have no idea how Ford makes cars either. The assembly line is the last step. All the research, design, engineering, and testing happens before any sheet metal is stamped out. So the comparison might be more true than not, but unknowingly.
Exactly. It's just that they mix up the steps. The last step, the assembly, is highly automated and usually very fast in software production, since it is done by a compiler (and the aptly named, assembler). The people involved are doing engineering and design, which is much harder to control.
When everyone has AI and the company still learns nothing
201–210 of 298 posts
Re: When everyone has AI and the company still learns nothing
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
This seems to be the default path which is encouraged/suggested lately, only happy path until you acquire customers
I think it’s fairly normal at least in my career - rush to ship something, lots of “we’ll polish this later,” two years go by, get called into vp/cto/whoever’s office when the debt comes calling like “what the fuck why is this like this???” and I have to say “that ‘later’ we decided is now I guess”
Re: When everyone has AI and the company still learns nothing
#203In my large enterprise world, AI adoption hasn't made it outside of the development teams - only developers have access to Github Copilot. Code takes 6-12 months to make it from commit to production. Development speed was never the bottleneck; it's all the other processes that take time: infra provisioning, testing, sign-offs, change management, deployment scheduling etc. AI makes these post-development bottlenecks w…
Re: When everyone has AI and the company still learns nothing
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm a manager and the VPs are starting to ask - how many story points are we getting with AI now. Now we do story points = number of days to implement. (I know this is not real agile but just assume you are in the same position) I can't answer that question but plenty of other managers are fully ready to just give bogus numbers. For my team, use of AI has indeed lowered the story point cost. The coding part of the st…
> story points = number of days to implement Some variant of this has been the case in every agile team I've ever worked on.
So what is it then? All the explanations and examples are in units of time, but with a disclaimer saying that the true nature of story points is not time-based, except for the fact that they can only be explained in terms of time.
Re: When everyone has AI and the company still learns nothing
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Sooner or later investors will see the "$2M spend" and demand "$4M net profit", and that's not going to materialize. I think this is probably going to happen at the same time that the providers start really jacking up token prices to extract all the value they can.
I'm a manager and the VPs are starting to ask - how many story points are we getting with AI now. Now we do story points = number of days to implement. (I know this is not real agile but just assume you are in the same position) I can't answer that question but plenty of other managers are fully ready to just give bogus numbers. For my team, use of AI has indeed lowered the story point cost. The coding part of the st…
Re: When everyone has AI and the company still learns nothing
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seems like the upside is that it makes the job way easier? What am I missing?
It seems like a lot of developers have philosophical disagreements with the direction of AI combined with fear of change and fear that AI makes them less competitive in the job market. I see people regularly boycotting or rejecting AI for a variation of these reasons, and it feels a lot like self-sabotage.
The juniors are eliminated and the seniors indulge in cognitive surrender because it feels good.
Re: When everyone has AI and the company still learns nothing
#207Re: When everyone has AI and the company still learns nothing
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
1) The game is not ending, it's changing. AI can sling a lot of code but we still need engineers that actually understand what the hell is going on. That's always been the bottleneck. It could eliminate junior positions, but seniors are fine for now. 2) It's been a hard lesson for me to learn because I'm naturally a contrarian, but you are hired to do what management wants you to do. If you resist, your best bet is t…
If you eliminate juniors over the next few years, there will be no seniors for the future when the current seniors retire.
Re: When everyone has AI and the company still learns nothing
#209In my large enterprise world, AI adoption hasn't made it outside of the development teams - only developers have access to Github Copilot. Code takes 6-12 months to make it from commit to production. Development speed was never the bottleneck; it's all the other processes that take time: infra provisioning, testing, sign-offs, change management, deployment scheduling etc. AI makes these post-development bottlenecks w…
Just yesterday I was in a meeting with a customer asking if we could make our FOSS virtualization platform work such that if you yank the root disk out of a server and put it in another one, everything will work with no hiccups. Well, provided it's exactly the same model and you're going to put it on the same network with all the same IP assignments, you've got a shot. I've actually tried to do this before for the hell of it and I only needed to account for the MAC addresses of the NICs being different, as long as you have no other drives and everything else is exactly the same. I'm sure I could whip up something that scans for the predictable interface name and changes the old MAC stored in the NetworkManager configuration files (and wherever else they might happen to be) and change them to the newly discovered one before making a DHCP request, and maybe that will work, but how certain can I really be? I can test on servers I have and I don't have every possible combination of data center equipment all of our customers have. There is no feasible way to test every possibility. Having an LLM whip up the code for me instead of writing it myself doesn't change that.
Ironically enough, that customer is making software for another customer and their own requirement is that it has to run on very hardware on an airplane, which they don't have. So they're working on little NUC clusters in their cubes and at their houses instead, because their company doesn't have extra true server racks for them to use and no budget to acquire them, which probably won't change any time soon given the spike in hardware prices. They're all using AI but what good is it doing? They're spinning their wheels because they're targeting a runtime environment that doesn't exist that they can't test on.
It's a weird folly of the Internet age that the largest companies in the software world are all web companies. Mostly, they're media companies in disguise. Their only real product is human attention and they sell it to advertisers. Tech is just the vehicle that allows them to deliver it. We've valorized their "ship as fast as possible" ethic, which maybe matters, maybe doesn't, but it was never the source of their value. Nobody spends ad money on Facebook and Google because of the quality or delivery speed of their software. It's the human users and data they've captured, which to be clear, software plays a huge role in, but it's not a model all software companies can follow. We don't earn revenue from half braindead doomscrollers wasting most of their day with a background drip of vaguely dopamine-boosting noise blasting into their senses while they leak every fact about their lives to media companies. Our customers have to make intentional decisions to spend money out of finite budgets.
There's another story on the frontpage right now of Coinbase laying off a bunch of its employees and using AI to write more code. Okay, great, but the best that can do is reduce labor expense. They only earn more revenue if consumers decide they want to buy more Crypto and hold it in Coinbase. If Coinbase is using AI to write their software, so is everyone else, so that doesn't give them any kind of edge on quality or shipping speed. Their success is going to be determined overwhelmingly by whether or not people want to buy crypto, a broad market trend completely out of their control. No one in any business ever wants to admit this, but we're all at the mercy of these broader trends.
People are all over this thread citing Ford. Ford didn't decline because they couldn't ship fast enough. They declined because the market stopped wanting what they were making except their full-size pickups, and it's largely just Americans that want that. I don't blame them or think they did anything wrong exactly. People love to do these post-mortems contemplating a world in which someone like Ford accurately predicts every single shift in consumer sentiment that will ever happens and always stays ahead of the curve. It'll never happen. Everything that goes into style eventually goes out of style, and your ability to ship out of style shit faster won't help you.
You said you work for a bank and I'm honestly curious. What causes a customer to choose your bank over another? Do you think it has anything to do with software features? I'm lucky I even got a meeting with the customer I was with yesterday. He told me he loves our product and fought hard for it over a chief architect who wanted something else and made them do a long comparison study to prove our product met their needs better. Why did that chief architect prefer the other product? He plays golf with their CTO.
Re: When everyone has AI and the company still learns nothing
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seems like the upside is that it makes the job way easier? What am I missing?
Im your CEO. I see you and the rest of your peers have doubled your productivity in the last 2 months because of claude. Good job! Now since we don’t really need to go that faster, ill fire half of you so I and my investors friends can make more profit. Now of course, you may think you are such a good engineer that companies will kill for you… perhaps that’s true now, but its not true for 90% of the engineers out the…
Is this a thing? Are there companies out there that don't want to go faster?