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It's official: Utah is the U.S. state closest to banning VPNs

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Re: It's official: Utah is the U.S. state closest to banning VPNs

#11

Post by giantg2 »

p_ing wrote: post #4
close04 wrote: post #2

> It's official: Utah is the U.S. state closest to banning VPNs > The law, which takes effect May 6, doesn't make VPNs illegal — but it's a blow to your rights, even if you don't live in Utah. > websites subject to the state's age verification law will be legally barred from explaining how to use a VPN to get around age restrictions. They'll also be liable for enforcing age verification for any user within Utah's phy…

Seems like the first part of that law would be struck down on First Amendment challenges. Second would be technically impossible, or the responsibility of VPN providers to somehow forward geo-location information for website operators to consume.

"Seems like the first part of that law would be struck down on First Amendment challenges."

Should be, but I wouldn't bet on it. We can see what states have been doing about "child sex abuse material" and arresting people for fictional stories, animations, etc on the theory that it might contribute to viewers becoming predators. It's disgusting stuff to even think about in this principled context, but it's wild that something fake is treated basically the same as the real thing. That's a lot of maybes and what-ifs resulting in child abuse convictions for something fictional. Might as well start up the pre-crime division.

Edit: Why do people disagree? Is it just because it is repulsive? Or is there an actual legal theory and material harm you are thinking about? If it's just "gross", isn't that the basis for many people's anti-gay stances, and how is this different?

Re: It's official: Utah is the U.S. state closest to banning VPNs

#12

Post by jmclnx »

OutOfHere wrote: post #8

This ban has got to be challenged in the Supreme Court for various reasons, not limited to the First Amendment and technological infeasibility. It is quite the coincidence that the NSA has their datacenter in Utah.

The current Supreme Court ?? I really doubt it will say these laws are illegal. They believe in "originalism", that means since the Internet did not exist in 1783, you have no rights to it and can be controlled in any manner the state of site owner sees fit.

Re: It's official: Utah is the U.S. state closest to banning VPNs

#13

Post by giantg2 »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #3
close04 wrote: post #2

> It's official: Utah is the U.S. state closest to banning VPNs > The law, which takes effect May 6, doesn't make VPNs illegal — but it's a blow to your rights, even if you don't live in Utah. > websites subject to the state's age verification law will be legally barred from explaining how to use a VPN to get around age restrictions. They'll also be liable for enforcing age verification for any user within Utah's phy…

I usually hate weird laws like that, and I hate giving the government more control in general, but... I'm having a hard time really freaking out about just being barred from websites being told not to tell their users... how to bypass the law. This would be bad in many scenarios.

I'd be more concerned about the second part dealing with blocking. You'd have to undermine the tech to implement it.

Re: It's official: Utah is the U.S. state closest to banning VPNs

#14

Post by roumenguha »

jespinel wrote: post #9

IMO, this is one of the main strengths of the US: you have 50 different options to live according to your values and beliefs, and relatively little friction if you decide to move to a state that better reflects them.

People make tradeoffs when it comes to where to live. You can surely move, but that assumes you have the financial means (if finding a new job is possible for you and your partner, and your children aren't at a point in their lives where moving would be detrimental), the support system, the friend circles, the third spaces and accompanying social systems, the kind of nature and access to that nature that you've grown used to.

Yes, there are 50 states. But besides some superficial differences, they tend to cluster in terms of policy. So, as a state slides further towards one extreme, it's not easy to decide which straw will break the camel's back. Because it could always be worse elsewhere, and is it really worth the trouble?

Re: It's official: Utah is the U.S. state closest to banning VPNs

#15

Post by add-sub-mul-div »

jespinel wrote: post #9

IMO, this is one of the main strengths of the US: you have 50 different options to live according to your values and beliefs, and relatively little friction if you decide to move to a state that better reflects them.

That's true in principle, but there's a lot of people trapped in red states who in a practical sense don't have the means to leave. I'm privileged to not have to worry about that friction, but I never forget that others do.

Re: It's official: Utah is the U.S. state closest to banning VPNs

#17

Post by axus »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #3
close04 wrote: post #2

> It's official: Utah is the U.S. state closest to banning VPNs > The law, which takes effect May 6, doesn't make VPNs illegal — but it's a blow to your rights, even if you don't live in Utah. > websites subject to the state's age verification law will be legally barred from explaining how to use a VPN to get around age restrictions. They'll also be liable for enforcing age verification for any user within Utah's phy…

I usually hate weird laws like that, and I hate giving the government more control in general, but... I'm having a hard time really freaking out about just being barred from websites being told not to tell their users... how to bypass the law. This would be bad in many scenarios.

Same category as banning HTTP links , it's an egregious violation of our natural free-speech rights.

Re: It's official: Utah is the U.S. state closest to banning VPNs

#18

Post by gh02t »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #3
close04 wrote: post #2

> It's official: Utah is the U.S. state closest to banning VPNs > The law, which takes effect May 6, doesn't make VPNs illegal — but it's a blow to your rights, even if you don't live in Utah. > websites subject to the state's age verification law will be legally barred from explaining how to use a VPN to get around age restrictions. They'll also be liable for enforcing age verification for any user within Utah's phy…

I usually hate weird laws like that, and I hate giving the government more control in general, but... I'm having a hard time really freaking out about just being barred from websites being told not to tell their users... how to bypass the law. This would be bad in many scenarios.

The concern with this law is that it's constructed in such a way that the only way to comply may end up being for VPN providers to ban Utah. Though that's not the same as Utah banning VPNs since private VPNs would still work, for most users it would be since setting a private VPN up is beyond most people.

Plus the issue of compelling otherwise fully lawful speech around providing VPN instructions.

Re: It's official: Utah is the U.S. state closest to banning VPNs

#19

Post by 8organicbits »

jmclnx wrote: post #10

Too bad companies did not have 'ba*s' to block their sites from being accessed in Utah. If all companies did that, it would stop all these crazy laws instantly. Where I live, one site I log into started asking for my birth date. That is in a State were age verification is not yet even being talked about. So my response is to never go to that site again. I believe it will change once users start dropping off that site…

> 'ba*s'

Is this balls? You can curse here.

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