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Richard Stallman on his experience in Cuba

blogs.computerworld.com

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Re: Richard Stallman on his experience in Cuba

#21

Post by jacoblyles »

biohacker42 wrote: post #10
hendler wrote: post #2

Good article. RMS has an honest take on Cuba. Open source can lead to other freedoms - some good discussion of software freedom. "DT: I've editorialized that U.S. companies should be allowed to compete in Cuba. What's your position on that? RMS: I really don't care. From my point of view, business issues are minor in comparison with issues of human rights and general well-being. "

Depends on what he means by business issues . A very good argument can be easily made that a fiat currency is a necessary but not sufficient element in modern well-being. Prior to fiat currencies there was a fixed amount of gold, and every coin in your pocket was a coin out of someone else's pocket. Imagine a fixed number of software copies, a gold based currency is a lot like DRM for money. Further more you can easi…

You're wrong on the fiat-money/gold standard point. You're forgetting about the price level. Any given economy can be run on any given supply of money, the prices and currency denominations just need to adjust. A gold standard doesn't transform an economy into a zero-sum game.

Pure fiat money has been functioning in the West since only 1971 when Nixon suspended the dollar's conversion to gold as a prelude to a rather shitty decade in terms of economic performance. Fiat currency has been tried plenty of times over the last few centuries; it was never a stable monetary regime. Our experiment with fiat is new and bold, and as yet unproven. If it turns out to be successful, it would be the first time.

Re: Richard Stallman on his experience in Cuba

#22

Post by JulianMorrison »

gaius wrote: post #20
JulianMorrison wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the cost of using Linux is less than the cost of using Windows, but the cost of ripping out existing Windows and re-training users is large enough to overwhelm the gain, then a population that uses neither but could learn Linux is at an advantage.

You're assuming that learning a PC operating system is an end in and of itself. It isn't. People in the real world use computers to get stuff done . For a Linux-using population to have an "advantage" you first need to know what they want to accomplish, then you need show how it can be done more quickly and easily on Linux, which is where the Linux house of cards comes tumbling down. This is not "year zero" of the Li…

You might have had a point half a decade ago. Nowadays it's pretty easy to get stuff done on Linux.

Re: Richard Stallman on his experience in Cuba

#23

Post by rbanffy »

jacoblyles wrote: post #19
hendler wrote: post #2

Good article. RMS has an honest take on Cuba. Open source can lead to other freedoms - some good discussion of software freedom. "DT: I've editorialized that U.S. companies should be allowed to compete in Cuba. What's your position on that? RMS: I really don't care. From my point of view, business issues are minor in comparison with issues of human rights and general well-being. "

Business freedoms lead to human rights and general well-being. Having a thriving private economy gives people choice over their profession. Increased wealth means people have more choice over their lives. Cuba legalized the private purchase of cell phones and computers in 2008, but most people are far too poor to buy one. If that were to change, it would be a clear improvement in Cubans' lives. Let us not forget the…

"Business freedoms lead to human rights and general well-being"

Business freedoms are also a consequence of other rights, like the right to property. They are nice, but not required.

Re: Richard Stallman on his experience in Cuba

#24

Post by kragen »

narag wrote: post #3

From the article: So I said, "Cuba has an important resource - lots of people who have never learned to use Windows. And here you are, destroying that resource, gratuitously. If you are not ready yet to switch these clubs so that they teach people free software, at least you should shut them down until they can." Does he say this seriously? I've seen people using this kind of hyperbole when in a partisan environment…

It's completely serious. Stallman thinks the social harm done by proprietary software licenses is greater than the good done by the ability to use the software. Do you think that's an unreasonable or laughable position?

The consequence that it is better to close down the clubs than to let them encourage proprietary software usage is almost inescapable given the above premise.

Re: Richard Stallman on his experience in Cuba

#25

Post by kragen »

jacoblyles wrote: post #19
hendler wrote: post #2

Good article. RMS has an honest take on Cuba. Open source can lead to other freedoms - some good discussion of software freedom. "DT: I've editorialized that U.S. companies should be allowed to compete in Cuba. What's your position on that? RMS: I really don't care. From my point of view, business issues are minor in comparison with issues of human rights and general well-being. "

Business freedoms lead to human rights and general well-being. Having a thriving private economy gives people choice over their profession. Increased wealth means people have more choice over their lives. Cuba legalized the private purchase of cell phones and computers in 2008, but most people are far too poor to buy one. If that were to change, it would be a clear improvement in Cubans' lives. Let us not forget the…

While it is true that increased wealth means that people have more choice in their lives, it does not necessarily follow that business freedoms lead to general well-being or to what is normally understood as human rights. As a matter of history, there have been very many places and times where business was relatively unrestricted, while labor and political activity were tightly regulated, and where the wealth from business failed to improve the lots of most of the population.

Current examples of some of these tendencies might include Dubai, Singapore, and some parts of mainland China. Examples in the past include Chile under Pinochet, Nazi Germany, and at times, ancient Rome. Places at risk include London.

Re: Richard Stallman on his experience in Cuba

#26

Post by jacoblyles »

kragen wrote: post #25
jacoblyles wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Business freedoms lead to human rights and general well-being. Having a thriving private economy gives people choice over their profession. Increased wealth means people have more choice over their lives. Cuba legalized the private purchase of cell phones and computers in 2008, but most people are far too poor to buy one. If that were to change, it would be a clear improvement in Cubans' lives. Let us not forget the…

While it is true that increased wealth means that people have more choice in their lives, it does not necessarily follow that business freedoms lead to general well-being or to what is normally understood as human rights. As a matter of history, there have been very many places and times where business was relatively unrestricted, while labor and political activity were tightly regulated, and where the wealth from bu…

If you wanted to pick a warning example, you could have done much better than Singapore.

Singapore was a third-world country when the current ruling party took over in the mid-60s. Today, it has a higher per capita GDP than the United States, and three times that of neighboring Malaysia.

In the dark days of the 60s, Singapore was threatened by the communist plague sweeping over Southeast Asia, racial tensions and riots, and hostile neighbor states. The fact that it survives and thrives today is remarkable.

Yes, its government violated "human rights" along the way. In the 60s it aggressively persecuted communists, forbid their literature, and drove communist labor movements out of the country. This offends our Western sensibilities, but it did allow Singapore to avoid the fate of Vietnam and Cambodia. Was it worth it? I think the citizens of Singapore, both then and now, would say "yes".

In most circumstances I am a Western liberal. But I refuse to follow any ideology blindly to the point that it leads me to advocating catastrophe.

Today, Singapore is one of the richest countries in the world. It is regularly ranked by international organizations as one of the 10 least corrupt, often beating the United States. Maybe its people are lacking "human rights", but their quality of life is matched by few peoples of the world, and none in Southeast Asia. The fact that it appears to be an example for the China "communists" gives me hope for the future of that country.

Re: Richard Stallman on his experience in Cuba

#27

Post by biohacker42 »

jacoblyles wrote: post #21
biohacker42 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on what he means by business issues . A very good argument can be easily made that a fiat currency is a necessary but not sufficient element in modern well-being. Prior to fiat currencies there was a fixed amount of gold, and every coin in your pocket was a coin out of someone else's pocket. Imagine a fixed number of software copies, a gold based currency is a lot like DRM for money. Further more you can easi…

You're wrong on the fiat-money/gold standard point. You're forgetting about the price level. Any given economy can be run on any given supply of money, the prices and currency denominations just need to adjust. A gold standard doesn't transform an economy into a zero-sum game. Pure fiat money has been functioning in the West since only 1971 when Nixon suspended the dollar's conversion to gold as a prelude to a rather…

What happens if new value is added to the economy?

Perhaps I've just discovered a cure for the common cold. The same amount of money is now chasing a bigger pot.

Suppose lots of people pay me for my cure, and I just save all the money, what happens to the restaurant down the road?

Also fiat currencies predate Nixon, the paper contracts between members of the Hanseatic League can be thought of as a form of fiat currency.

Re: Richard Stallman on his experience in Cuba

#28

Post by gaius »

JulianMorrison wrote: post #22
gaius wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that learning a PC operating system is an end in and of itself. It isn't. People in the real world use computers to get stuff done . For a Linux-using population to have an "advantage" you first need to know what they want to accomplish, then you need show how it can be done more quickly and easily on Linux, which is where the Linux house of cards comes tumbling down. This is not "year zero" of the Li…

You might have had a point half a decade ago. Nowadays it's pretty easy to get stuff done on Linux.

You might have had a point if you knew what goal the Cubans were trying to accomplish before you were all "rah rah Linux".

Choose the right tool for the job.

Re: Richard Stallman on his experience in Cuba

#29

Post by jacoblyles »

biohacker42 wrote: post #27
jacoblyles wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're wrong on the fiat-money/gold standard point. You're forgetting about the price level. Any given economy can be run on any given supply of money, the prices and currency denominations just need to adjust. A gold standard doesn't transform an economy into a zero-sum game. Pure fiat money has been functioning in the West since only 1971 when Nixon suspended the dollar's conversion to gold as a prelude to a rather…

What happens if new value is added to the economy? Perhaps I've just discovered a cure for the common cold. The same amount of money is now chasing a bigger pot. Suppose lots of people pay me for my cure, and I just save all the money, what happens to the restaurant down the road? Also fiat currencies predate Nixon, the paper contracts between members of the Hanseatic League can be thought of as a form of fiat curren…

The same amount of money chasing fewer goods leads to deflation - each unit of currency can buy more goods. When this occurs due to an increase in productivity, such as in the example you describe, deflation can accompany economic growth.

Deflation was paired with economic growth in the United States under the gold standard for about 30 years at the end of the 19th century.

This was a good recent article on a related topic. Selgin is a well-known monetary economist:

http://www.amconmag.com/article/2009/feb/09/00014/

Re: Richard Stallman on his experience in Cuba

#30

Post by corentin »

alecco wrote: post #11
corentin wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He certainly is serious. But as long as his ridiculous totalitarian/communist ideas only apply to software, he's mostly harmless.

HN, wtf. Stallman is many things but would never, ever be "totalitarian/communist." Who is voting this troll up? Come on, this is supposed to be a hacker site. He even talks about regime change in Cuba to open up.

That's not what I'm talking about.

Stallman declared he'd rather see computer clubs closed than using Windows. He wants to convert (I'm quoting the article) the "important resource" (read: people 'unspoiled' by Windows) to free software (just like Che Guevara who went to Africa to convert people unspoiled by capitalism to the ideal of communism).

So I rest my case: as far as software is concerned, he is a totalitarian.

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