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Talking to strangers at the gym

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Re: Talking to strangers at the gym

#701

Post by socalgal2 »

dweekly wrote: post #415
nozzlegear wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I avoided this book for a long time. for some reason I got it in my head that it's a sort of red pilled book that teaches you how to manipulate people. FWIW this book came out in the 1930s, long before "red pilling" was a thing. I've read it before and it's not about manipulating people unless you consider being a genuinely sincere person to be manipulative in some way. It's a good book, if a little outdated, and,…

My read on the book was "humans are really good at telling if you genuinely care about them or not and will respond well to that, so you should genuinely care about the people around you, and good things will result from that overall, especially if you're not super mercenary about it." Bill & Ted said it most pithily: be excellent to each other.

Serious question - what is your definition of "genuinely care"? The Carnegie example doesn't show "geninuely care" to me. It's nice, I think I should do it. Give people random but geninue complements. It's nice. It costs nothing. It makes both of us feel good. But, is that "genuinely care"?

I ask because I'm bad at conversation. I hear this "genuinely care" and I just, usually, can't get myself to do it. I don't care. I would like to have a nice conversation and I try to care in the moment but the odds are pretty high that 5 minutes after it's over I'll not even know their name and move on with my life. That's not "genuine care" to me.

Re: Talking to strangers at the gym

#703

Post by socalgal2 »

aidenn0 wrote: post #620
porknubbins wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes this is obvious if you think about movies where people become friends or romantic partners- they are usually cold or unfriendly to each other in the first meeting which makes their later connection seem more authentic. I cannot imagine a movie post 1950s in which a man uses these tactics and gets the girl or the sale without difficulty. Of course movies are not real life but they do rely on some verasimilitude.

That's because a movie like that would be boring (at least if it took up more than a minimal amount of screen-time). Interesting stories require some form of conflict, and for movies that focus on romance, the conflict will be interpersonal.

Selective memory. Plenty of movies do not require conflict before romance. La La Land, Being Again, Silver Linings Playbook, About Time, ... plenty of others.

Re: Talking to strangers at the gym

#704

Post by roenxi »

weregiraffe wrote: post #663
dweekly wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My read on the book was "humans are really good at telling if you genuinely care about them or not and will respond well to that, so you should genuinely care about the people around you, and good things will result from that overall, especially if you're not super mercenary about it." Bill & Ted said it most pithily: be excellent to each other.

How can you make yourself genuinely care about something you don't care about? It sounds as plausible as changing your own sexual orientation.

Not sure what the downvotes are for on this one. It depends a lot on what "genuine care" is supposed to mean. If you want to interpret that as a subconscious feeling then you're right. Feelings aren't normally controllable and calling them up on demand is pretty much impossible.

That being said, if you go through a bit of game theory and apply it to the real world - the experience of the last few millennia of recorded history is the strategy most likely to get people what they want is lots of communication and setting up win-win deals for everyone. Someone who reliably offers win-win deals has a natural advantage over the more common person who thinks in terms of win-lose deals. Communities that make a habit of setting up win-win deals for their members have an overwhelming advantage over those that don't. If you tap in to that type of thinking it tends to translate into taking a real interest in how other people are going because it is easier to set win-win deals up if you know what their problems and goals are. And a sensible sub-strategy is making sure to be as kind as possible to everyone to get into the habit of thinking empathically and keep channels of communication as open as possible.

So if "genuine care" means you literally feel something... nobody has much use for your feelings, we can't tell what your feelings are anyway and you probably can't call them up on demand. If "genuine care" means you try to figure out what other people want and then help them get it then that's simply good strategy and most people should find their way to it if they think about it for long enough. Some people have to think a bit harder than others and there are a few rare maniacs who really just want to cause pain and suffering. The maniacs are bad news.

Re: Talking to strangers at the gym

#705

Post by wink »

nozzlegear wrote: post #112
alexmuresan wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I avoided this book for a long time. for some reason I got it in my head that it's a sort of red pilled book that teaches you how to manipulate people. I know it's very shallow on my side, but I somehow crystallized this opinion based on a few acquaintances that claimed to read it and instead that they include the name of a person they just met in every sentence because it made that person like them more. Your commen…

> I avoided this book for a long time. for some reason I got it in my head that it's a sort of red pilled book that teaches you how to manipulate people. FWIW this book came out in the 1930s, long before "red pilling" was a thing. I've read it before and it's not about manipulating people unless you consider being a genuinely sincere person to be manipulative in some way. It's a good book, if a little outdated, and,…

I don't want to be too generalizing, but I found the book to be matching a lot of American cultural stereotypes (as I have experienced them) and most of it would just seem corny (but not terrible) to most people from European countries (less in the south or UK maybe).

Like, I don't even disagree with what he wrote, but most of the stuff just felt a little out of place and intruding on people who generally want to be left alone or keep it to small talk on a different level.

Re: Talking to strangers at the gym

#706

Post by Fuzzwah »

talkingtab wrote: post #506

I have found three strange and unexpected avenues for interacting with people. 1. Be on a quest. Yes a quest. I was trying to buy an old metal key as a gift for a friend. I wanted to find someone who sold sheep's milk (for making cheese). If you are on a quest it gives a context for an interaction. You both have something to talk about and it you both have an out: the answer. People almost always help you with a ques…

You've so perfectly explained something that I picked up from my father. He always seemed to have a way to get special treatment from people. I always explained it in a very Australian way; "he's a bit of a character" and figured it was tied to his gift of "telling a yarn".

But reflecting on it now, it's because he was always on a quest.

Re: Talking to strangers at the gym

#707

Post by cobbzilla »

socalgal2 wrote: post #701
dweekly wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My read on the book was "humans are really good at telling if you genuinely care about them or not and will respond well to that, so you should genuinely care about the people around you, and good things will result from that overall, especially if you're not super mercenary about it." Bill & Ted said it most pithily: be excellent to each other.

Serious question - what is your definition of "genuinely care"? The Carnegie example doesn't show "geninuely care" to me. It's nice, I think I should do it. Give people random but geninue complements. It's nice. It costs nothing. It makes both of us feel good. But, is that "genuinely care"? I ask because I'm bad at conversation. I hear this "genuinely care" and I just, usually, can't get myself to do it. I don't care…

I’m not so hung up on the semantics. The fact that you’ll likely never meet someone again can render an act of kindness towards them, no matter how small, more meaningful, not less.

Re: Talking to strangers at the gym

#708

Post by Stalecelin »

ragazzina wrote: post #674
Stalecelin wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My life quality increased immensely when I realized most of Reddit is bots and the parts written by real humans are usually written by the type of person that you really shouldn’t take any advice from

What kind of reddit do you browse? The /r/funny one or the /r/composting one?

Not even a big "browser". This realization hit me after missing some uni events after reading negative comments on town subreddit, then discovering that I actually know one of the commenters in real life and he is just a plain idiot and it was an obvious mistake to not go. When there is no objective criteria, relying on personal judgement or plain chance is just a better way to go instead of overthinking based on stranger advice.

Re: Talking to strangers at the gym

#709

Post by samsepia »

deadbabe wrote: post #586
alexmuresan wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I avoided this book for a long time. for some reason I got it in my head that it's a sort of red pilled book that teaches you how to manipulate people. I know it's very shallow on my side, but I somehow crystallized this opinion based on a few acquaintances that claimed to read it and instead that they include the name of a person they just met in every sentence because it made that person like them more. Your commen…

You may be confusing this book with the 48 Laws of Power which is absolutely a book no one on hackernews should read because we have enough people in the tech industry scheming to get the upper hand on society as is.

You're selling the book :D

Re: Talking to strangers at the gym

#710

Post by codethief »

@OP

> Comes with a friend to workout. I think she's from Columbia

In case you continue talking to her: Colombians are rather particular about their country's spelling. They will usually frown when you spell it incorrectly, that is with a U instead of an O, and label you as stereotypical gringo / US American because of that. (Adding the "US" prefix here because I can already hear my Colombian friends complain that they, too, are American… :-))

> Unfortunately, most of the friends I’ve made are busy on the weekend. They’re taking trips to visit loved ones, going to the bar (I’m not that into drinking)

Is it really hard drinking that they do or just socializing? In the latter case just pick a bar with some non-alcoholic drinks you like.

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