Entrepreneurshit • Hacker News Board

Re: Entrepreneurshit

#21

Post by tinco » Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 9:27 PM UTC

fatbird wrote: post #13

tinco wrote: post #5

This sort of post is why I read HN, in my opinion posts like this should get more upvotes than Steve's death. For some reason I find it very reassuring to read articles that tell about all the downsides of being an entrepreneur. It makes me feel like I know about all the obstacles that are coming my way, but also confident that I could handle/deal with them. Ofcourse this might be terribly naieve. But then comes the…

The thing I wonder about is how the knowledgeable and experienced can write articles like this, explicitly recognizing that an adrenaline/stress high is a necessary component, and not think that we need to find a better way to encourage entrepreneurship than the current "ten set out and nine don't make it" method.

How would you envision this? 9 out of 10 ideas are just bad, or 9 out of 10 executions are just bad, and you can't know which ones are good or bad ahead of time.

The amount of stress comes from the fact that you constantly need to reassure yourself and your stakeholders that your startup is a 10%er and not a 90%er.

I'm not a VC so I don't have all the data, but from my point of view I see no way out of this system.

Re: Entrepreneurshit

#22

Post by fatbird » Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 10:01 PM UTC

tinco wrote: post #21

fatbird wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing I wonder about is how the knowledgeable and experienced can write articles like this, explicitly recognizing that an adrenaline/stress high is a necessary component, and not think that we need to find a better way to encourage entrepreneurship than the current "ten set out and nine don't make it" method.

How would you envision this? 9 out of 10 ideas are just bad, or 9 out of 10 executions are just bad, and you can't know which ones are good or bad ahead of time. The amount of stress comes from the fact that you constantly need to reassure yourself and your stakeholders that your startup is a 10%er and not a 90%er. I'm not a VC so I don't have all the data, but from my point of view I see no way out of this system.

I don't have a replacement model, because I'm not a VC, just a guy with one startup experience under my belt. My intuition and meagre experience tell me that a less competitive, more guided atmosphere would be better, with more emphasis on slow growth businesses rather than "the next ..." Even PG has said that the whole business is structured to find the one out of hundred that brings thousandfold returns, in order to finance all the gambling with the other 99. What about a system that funded more broadly, looking for more modest returns and with clearer goals for the entrepeneurs?

There's a strong "death or glory" ethic that pervades startup culture, that I think chases out more modest businesses, to all our detriment. Look at the back-and-forth here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4799163. Ryan Carson writes about going it alone, and PG pushes back with data from the pressure cooker side that co-founders are empirically necessary; Carson, though, was writing just about how a more modest business plan can be successfully executed by a single founder.

Re: Entrepreneurshit

#23

Post by pjsullivan3 » Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 10:05 PM UTC

carlio wrote: post #18

xal wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean that you hear from companies that they don't want to hire you because you have been an entrepreneur? That can't be right, it's the kind of person everyone seeks. Hack, I've paid millions in the past buying companies mostly to hire such people.

It means that once you've been in that position, you can't stomach being an underling any more, you're too impertinent and used to making decisions rather than following them. That's my take on it at least.

Yea thats what I am getting at, but I also feel that when your an entrepreneur you have an attitude that may not be in line with a more corporate setting.

Re: Entrepreneurshit

#24

Post by lsc » Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 10:06 PM UTC

minimax wrote: post #12

A few (dissenting) points: If you want to eat healthy at O'Hare, you can find a salad or sandwich in any terminal. If you really want to blow your calorie budget, go find one of the Goose Island bars in terminal 1 or 3. Have a Matilda. It's fantastic. Next point: I really dislike working for bosses with a misplaced sense of paternalism. If there are risks or uncertainties facing the business, don't hide them from you…

>Last point: look, if a life of flying around the country and working long hours is your idea of a tortured life only a special breed of men known as "entrepreneurs" can bear, then you need to pull your head out of your ass. That life is stressful and that it takes hard work to get ahead are universal truths. The rest of us aren't just coasting along in a risk-free world.

What I find especially amusing is that it seems to be the entrepreneurs that are doing it with other people's money that complain so much about stress. the "crazy people" that do it with our own money generally don't go in for that kind of chest pounding.

The real problem here, I think, isn't the chest pounding, but the fact that they really believe that depriving themselves of sleep is somehow helping the company, and that sometimes they actually do it.

You can argue all day about the optimal number of work hours, and maybe have a point that some people can effectively work more than the 35-40 hours a week of "real work" that I advocate.

But sleep? Study after study has shown that shorting yourself on sleep does horrible things to your performance, no matter how you measure performance. If your performance really is critical to the performance of the company? the most important thing for you to do is to get adequate sleep each and every night.

Re: Entrepreneurshit

#25

Post by jonathanjaeger » Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 10:15 PM UTC

DanielRibeiro wrote: post #20

tinco wrote: post #5

This sort of post is why I read HN, in my opinion posts like this should get more upvotes than Steve's death. For some reason I find it very reassuring to read articles that tell about all the downsides of being an entrepreneur. It makes me feel like I know about all the obstacles that are coming my way, but also confident that I could handle/deal with them. Ofcourse this might be terribly naieve. But then comes the…

The OP, Mark Suster, is frequently on the front page of HN[1]. But many of his insights don't get this far. For those, you have RSS[2] and Youtube subscriptions[3], as he is also the host of "This week in Venture Capital". HN is great for finding some gems. For others, you can use the referrals as good start digging spots. [1] http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/submissions&q=bot... [2] http://feeds.feedburner.com…

This Week in Startups and This Week in Venture Capital are my favorite podcasts -- not because of the difference in subject matter (there is overlap), but in the tone and insights.

Re: Entrepreneurshit

#26

Post by jessedhillon » Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 10:55 PM UTC

minimax wrote: post #12

A few (dissenting) points: If you want to eat healthy at O'Hare, you can find a salad or sandwich in any terminal. If you really want to blow your calorie budget, go find one of the Goose Island bars in terminal 1 or 3. Have a Matilda. It's fantastic. Next point: I really dislike working for bosses with a misplaced sense of paternalism. If there are risks or uncertainties facing the business, don't hide them from you…

What the fuck.

You're flaming Mark Suster -- that's what it means when you tell him he has his head up his ass -- because you don't like some of the conclusions he's drawn from his experience. His experience as a successful entrepreneur, investor and mentor.

Essentially, from what I can tell, you have a problem with tone -- the guy uploads his brain and you slam him for his choice of words. He's not telling you that you're stupid or inferior, he just used a tone you didn't like. And for this reason, you're blasting a guy who just dumped a wealth of valuable experience into a coherent, emotionally relatable stream of consciousness. A humble and gracious thing to do, by any standard.

But no, you're totally right -- let's get mad and tell him to fuck off for his style.

Instead of blasting a guy for having an amazing career and sharing life lessons which you find personally inconvenient: go do something amazing and then come back and let us all know how it felt.

Re: Entrepreneurshit

#27

Post by 001sky » Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 11:13 PM UTC

jessedhillon wrote: post #26

minimax wrote: post #12

A few (dissenting) points: If you want to eat healthy at O'Hare, you can find a salad or sandwich in any terminal. If you really want to blow your calorie budget, go find one of the Goose Island bars in terminal 1 or 3. Have a Matilda. It's fantastic. Next point: I really dislike working for bosses with a misplaced sense of paternalism. If there are risks or uncertainties facing the business, don't hide them from you…

What the fuck. You're flaming Mark Suster -- that's what it means when you tell him he has his head up his ass -- because you don't like some of the conclusions he's drawn from his experience. His experience as a successful entrepreneur, investor and mentor. Essentially, from what I can tell, you have a problem with tone -- the guy uploads his brain and you slam him for his choice of words. He's not telling you that…

As of this writing: ~225 upvotes for artcle and only 25 comments. Just something to note. A 9:1 ratio signals a pretty strong submission, IMHO.

Re: Entrepreneurshit

#28

Post by minimax » Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 11:40 PM UTC

jessedhillon wrote: post #26

minimax wrote: post #12

A few (dissenting) points: If you want to eat healthy at O'Hare, you can find a salad or sandwich in any terminal. If you really want to blow your calorie budget, go find one of the Goose Island bars in terminal 1 or 3. Have a Matilda. It's fantastic. Next point: I really dislike working for bosses with a misplaced sense of paternalism. If there are risks or uncertainties facing the business, don't hide them from you…

What the fuck. You're flaming Mark Suster -- that's what it means when you tell him he has his head up his ass -- because you don't like some of the conclusions he's drawn from his experience. His experience as a successful entrepreneur, investor and mentor. Essentially, from what I can tell, you have a problem with tone -- the guy uploads his brain and you slam him for his choice of words. He's not telling you that…

I've never heard of Mark Suster before today and I'm sorry if I offended you by criticizing one of your role models. Though if you reread his post, he does mention impertinence as being a characteristic of entrepreneurs. Maybe Mark Suster and I have more in common than I initially thought.

Re: Entrepreneurshit

#29

Post by polyfractal » Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 11:41 PM UTC

jessedhillon wrote: post #26

minimax wrote: post #12

A few (dissenting) points: If you want to eat healthy at O'Hare, you can find a salad or sandwich in any terminal. If you really want to blow your calorie budget, go find one of the Goose Island bars in terminal 1 or 3. Have a Matilda. It's fantastic. Next point: I really dislike working for bosses with a misplaced sense of paternalism. If there are risks or uncertainties facing the business, don't hide them from you…

What the fuck. You're flaming Mark Suster -- that's what it means when you tell him he has his head up his ass -- because you don't like some of the conclusions he's drawn from his experience. His experience as a successful entrepreneur, investor and mentor. Essentially, from what I can tell, you have a problem with tone -- the guy uploads his brain and you slam him for his choice of words. He's not telling you that…

Umm, woah there buddy?

The parent poster presented disagreements in a rational, calm manner that facilitates discussion. Everyone is entitled to opinions, and he made his points in a rather respectful manner.

You, on the other hand, exploded like a bomb. Why the need to lash out so violently? You've been around HN for a long time so you should know that this kind of discourse is not really desired.

Re: Entrepreneurshit

#30

Post by nhangen » Sun, Nov 18, 2012, 11:43 PM UTC

This is the most complete and representative post on entrepreneurship I've ever read, at least according to my own experiences. I do listen to Mark's podcast, but this is by far the best of his best.