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Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

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Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#271

Post by philipallstar »

hallole wrote: post #147
ElevenLathe wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what we've shed are more things like chairing a committee for the VFW, selling snacks at little league games, or being active in a lowers voice, looks over shoulder union. These are things that would traditionally take up the social slack left by not punching a clock every day, and we've eliminated them systematically to make room for more marketized activities. Today's retirees are "richer" than their parent…

In what way have we "eliminated them systematically"? Maybe I haven't paid close enough attention, but it feels like those activities have (unfortunately) disappeared largely naturally.

If you look at any society in history, those things disappearing is the opposite of natural.

While it's true that there are some positive factors causing it (e.g. housework has been made far easier through inventing/factorying/delivering/installing of appliances like vacuum cleaners, washing machines and dishwashers, and the world has just become easier and safer to be in for women through things such as reliable cars with power steering, mobile phone, and policemen who respond) there are a lot of negative factors that just push those time-rich, more society enriching-capable women into the world of work.

The main one being what I already mentioned: house prices force them to work to pay a bank back for paying a boomer a massive price for a house, to keep up with the other two-income house bids.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#272

Post by rowanG077 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #151
hallole wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Traditional marriage was primarily an economic contract." I don't buy this. You can, for the purposes of your argument, reduce marriage to being something like an economic contract, that's fine; but, in reality, that's not what marriage is/has been primarily about. Also, solving the burden of work for one sex isn't a solution. Granted, it's better than nothing.

> that's not what marriage is/has been primarily about Ancient societies' marriages we have records about were principally about economics and politics. Maybe the poor were having love marriages. We don't know because most of our sources couldn't be bothered with them. But to the degree we have evidence, it's in even poor landowners preferring to marry children off to the owners of adjoining plots. Like, maybe that's…

How do you suppose people in those times would even meet some love interest in a far away place, aka the next town over?

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#273

Post by anentropic »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #161
devilsdata wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason people go from work to nothing on retirement is because work fills up the nearly all of the productive hours of a person's life. If it were to take, let's say 4 days, or six hours a day, people would be so bored, they would be making projects, business ventures, or volunteering. And then on retirement, people would still have their hobbies and passion projects they had been working on their entire life. Th…

> they would be making projects, business ventures, or volunteering This is not what actually happens in practice. There is no sudden outbreak of productive activity because people have more free time. If this was going to occur there would be mountains of empirical evidence for it by now because this situation isn't rare. I know many people with a lot of free time. In the vast majority of cases, people spend their f…

This is only anecdata

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#274

Post by ap99 »

devilsdata wrote: post #158
b00ty4breakfast wrote: post #35

The problem isn't retirement per se, it is that people don't have things to occupy themselves with. They retire and they vegetate. I worked with a lady that was in her 70s who was deathly afraid of retiring because she didn't have anything to do. That's beyond depressing to me, to be incapable of even conceiving of doing something that doesn't involve going to a job. We have created people that never develop as human…

The reason people go from work to nothing on retirement is because work fills up the nearly all of the productive hours of a person's life. If it were to take, let's say 4 days, or six hours a day, people would be so bored, they would be making projects, business ventures, or volunteering. And then on retirement, people would still have their hobbies and passion projects they had been working on their entire life. Th…

Since you're already in this optimizing mindset -- do as much as you can to improve/optimize your mitochondria and lots of these issues get better.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#276

Post by chownie »

henrikschroder wrote: post #246
fendy3002 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, the statement is so bad with a pattern of "because most won't, then all won't", which commonly used during birth rate issues too. It's either ignorant or malicious with hidden agenda behind. Giving employees 1 week of free time? That's nothing, and nothing will change too as a result. Give them a whole month of free time? I bet they will make some small, short term projects, even doing hobbies like gaming, fishi…

> Giving employees 1 week of free time? That's nothing, and nothing will change too as a result. Give them a whole month of free time? I bet they will make some small, short term projects, even doing hobbies like gaming, fishing, cooking or golfing where it wasn't available before. *confused in European, again* Hey, if only there was an entire continent of hundreds of millions of people who typically have 5 weeks of…

You have confused 5 weeks (across a year) for 5 weeks (contiguous), this isn't speciality european confusion it's the regular garden variety.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#277

Post by overtomanu »

somenameforme wrote: post #261
globalnode wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think people trying to argue that we would be more productive is a symptom of the productivity disease. where all we value is productivity and thats the only way we can justify more non-work time. i personally just think we should all have more time to do what we want, whether that is being productive on personal projects, talking to people, playing games, or doing nothing. happier people right? why should 10% of t…

I was all with you right up until the class conflict stuff. Nobody's enslaving anybody. Well that's not true, we're mostly enslaving ourselves. There are endless easy opportunities in life. For instance go teach English in Saudi Arabia and you'll earn around $60k a year which doesn't sound like much until you account for the fact you pay 0% in taxes and have a cost of living well under $1k a month. Just live frugally…

Leaving the place you have lived your whole life, the place where your family and personal life is and going to another country for work for 5 to 10 years will destroy the past life they had.

After 5 10 years that person will almost become part Saudi due to living in another country. And after he comes back no one will be that close, even close family members will feel something different due to the person being away/(out of physical touch) for 10 years

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#278

Post by calferreira »

protocolture wrote: post #199
calferreira wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually have the same fear. I love computers and I don't know what I'll do once I retire. Problem solving on computers is like oxygen to me.

Honestly when given downtime I generate more computer problems than I could ever hope to solve. I cant even fathom being bored with a computer. My mother used to accuse me of breaking the home PC just to keep myself busy and it was not far from the truth.

I already do that now! Sometimes I break my workstation by experimenting with stuff then I have to reinstall everything from scratch again, and it's fun! Virtual high five for you.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#279

Post by philipallstar »

Aurornis wrote: post #177
philipallstar wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the outcome of everyone working. There's no alternate, complementary system (mostly women) of interesting, society-strengthening activities. Everyone works because they have to, because otherwise they won't afford a house when competing against two-income households, so everyone's busy, so everything's a rush and far more activities that used to be done are now monetised. No time for baking treats; just buy s…

> No time for baking treats > No time for being a governor at the local school The way the internet talks about employment is so foreign compared to real life. Does anyone really believe that having a job precludes baking treats? Or volunteering at a school? My kids' school and all of my friends' kids' schools have parent-run boards and other organizations where most of the participants also have jobs. Outside of the…

> Does anyone really believe that having a job precludes baking treats?

I don't mean occasionally. I mean as normal practice - no plastic-wrapped snacks at all other than an occasional chocolate.

> Like I'm reading about a different world where everyone is working 100 hours per week

It depends where you live. If you're in a country with low population growth then the housing cost increase from 2-earner families isn't a big deal. You might be slightly lower down in the house affordability tier, but you will get a house. If you're not (e.g. the UK) you basically have to both work to get a dwelling.

And it also depends when you live. Gen Z are saying they can't get started, and don't expect to buy a house until well into their 30s. Current parents could buy in their late 20s, and their parents could in their early 20s. The trend is obvious, and its conclusion has arrived.

If you can do significant community-strengthening work while also doing a normally 40-hour-a-week job then I'd be pretty surprised. Maybe you only sleep 4 hours a night.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#280

Post by dqv »

somenameforme wrote: post #261
globalnode wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think people trying to argue that we would be more productive is a symptom of the productivity disease. where all we value is productivity and thats the only way we can justify more non-work time. i personally just think we should all have more time to do what we want, whether that is being productive on personal projects, talking to people, playing games, or doing nothing. happier people right? why should 10% of t…

I was all with you right up until the class conflict stuff. Nobody's enslaving anybody. Well that's not true, we're mostly enslaving ourselves. There are endless easy opportunities in life. For instance go teach English in Saudi Arabia and you'll earn around $60k a year which doesn't sound like much until you account for the fact you pay 0% in taxes and have a cost of living well under $1k a month. Just live frugally…

0% of people will take your advice because it's half-baked and you didn't actually research the requirements (hint: simply knowing English is not enough) to get such a job. Or you purposefully omitted the requirements to make your point that it's "easy".

A word of advice: if you want to give advice, at least be realistic.

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