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Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

economist.com

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Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#121

Post by NickC25 »

Terr_ wrote: post #86
dd8601fn wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of the TikTok ban that lasted all of twelve seconds. I’ve been using the internet for longer than I care to admit, and I’ve never seen anything like it. It was like 300 million junkies all lost their drug supplier at the same time.

> This reminds me of the TikTok ban that lasted all of twelve seconds. That timeline has way more to do with the corrupt politicians than consumer behavior. _______________ Both in the sense that the original semi-bipartisan law should've been ruled unconstitutional [0], and also in how the Republican party turned around and broke portions of that law for months until Trump could ensure the assets were handed to his…

>and also in how the Republican party turned around and broke portions of that law for months until Trump could ensure the assets were handed to his major donor buddy--and fixing none of the original PRC influence issues. [1]

Are you even remotely surprised by that? Honestly.

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#122

Post by dangus »

birdsongs wrote: post #26
dangus wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cookie dialogs are the opposite, they are asking for consent up front. Before they existed websites would just put stuff on your computer without asking. They’re literally a consumer protection. Direct your outrage elsewhere.

I have no outrage, and for what it's worth, I upvoted you so your comment wasn't killed. I think you're being condescending though, and missing the point.

The point came across to me as a pretty unproductive comment on the design of the website hosting the article rather than its contents, which is why I responded the way I did.

Just like people who will complain about a news site with ads or some other unrelated design feature of the site they don’t like.

Again, if you’re on here you presumably know how to block ads, or cookie dialogs.

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#123

Post by [deleted] »

EGreg wrote: post #24
dangus wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cookie dialogs are the opposite, they are asking for consent up front. Before they existed websites would just put stuff on your computer without asking. They’re literally a consumer protection. Direct your outrage elsewhere.

Direct yours

[deleted]

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#124

Post by Seattle3503 »

> The burden of proof should fall on the platform, not the victim. The question is not whether a harmed user can show specific damage. The question is whether the company can show, before rolling a product out to billions of people, that it is not predatory by design.

That's asking every company to prove a negative before rolling out new features.

Could we have a regulatory agency that keeps an eye on dark patterns and deals with them as evidence emerges that something is harmful.

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#125

Post by traderj0e »

cortesoft wrote: post #101
traderj0e wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One way is intent. If a company's internal communications show that they're intentionally making it addictive, or worse they know it causes harm, you have the smoking gun. This of course doesn't catch all the abuse, but at least it makes it much harder to do this down an entire reporting chain. They have to get really good at winking. One famous case was Apple suing Samsung over patents. Hard to prove until internal…

Companies are onto this, though, and do training with their staff about how to phrase things in emails to make it look better.

Yeah I've done those trainings. That's expected. Even if people learn to say things without saying them, it's a lot harder to communicate across multiple people. And some people are still loudmouths, like at Samsung evidently.

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#126

Post by advisedwang »

dd8601fn wrote: post #22
ngriffiths wrote: post #9

Sure, making instagram as addictive as possible seems bad but I disagree with the framing a bit. Dark patterns get users to do things they don't want, that's why they get super annoyed at the design or the process or the outcome. Addictive apps are a different thing to me. I don't think it's that compelling to say "obviously no one wants to be on Instagram and they're getting manipulated into it." ...yeah they do! Th…

This reminds me of the TikTok ban that lasted all of twelve seconds. I’ve been using the internet for longer than I care to admit, and I’ve never seen anything like it. It was like 300 million junkies all lost their drug supplier at the same time.

> the TikTok ban that lasted all of twelve seconds

The TikTok ban successfully forced the sale of the US TikTok operations. I wouldn't be so dismissive of it.

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#127

Post by Pet_Ant »

Seattle3503 wrote: post #124

> The burden of proof should fall on the platform, not the victim. The question is not whether a harmed user can show specific damage. The question is whether the company can show, before rolling a product out to billions of people, that it is not predatory by design. That's asking every company to prove a negative before rolling out new features. Could we have a regulatory agency that keeps an eye on dark patterns a…

> That's asking every company to prove a negative before rolling out new features.

That’s not as rediculous as it seems. That’s sort of model that drug manufacturers follow. It would also mean that if internally they see troubling behaviour they know they have to stop.

Practically, it would be corporate cover up. And applied earnestly it would make these businesses unviable.

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#128

Post by noosphr »

I'm so happy the economist is converting this important topic.

Now if only the dick heads running this complete rag could listen to the wonderful people who wrote that enlightened piece and let users unsubscribe: https://www.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/rli0u9/how_t...

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#129

Post by selectively »

ambicapter wrote: post #17
selectively wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an outrageously dumb thing to say. BIg Tobacco knowingly sold a product that physically addicted (the only real form of addiction) its users and killed them . Facebook is not that.

Depression is not death, but it is still a loss of life.

No.

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#130

Post by altmanaltman »

wormy745 wrote: post #31
ngriffiths wrote: post #9

Sure, making instagram as addictive as possible seems bad but I disagree with the framing a bit. Dark patterns get users to do things they don't want, that's why they get super annoyed at the design or the process or the outcome. Addictive apps are a different thing to me. I don't think it's that compelling to say "obviously no one wants to be on Instagram and they're getting manipulated into it." ...yeah they do! Th…

Do you think Instagram/Facebook is a wolf in sheep’s clothing, or a sheep with fangs? By that I mean- is the product addiction, with a shroud of media, or is it media which just happens to be addictive.

they are the Shepard, we are the sheep, ads/media are the wolves that also have a deal with the shepard.
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