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I am worried about Bun

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Re: I am worried about Bun

#121

Post by zem »

ashdksnndck wrote: post #114
stkdump wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting how quickly people buy the "abuse" line of thinking. We understood (and knew for a long time) that the large AI labs are not monetarily profiting from subscription users that make heavy use of their subscription. That is independent of which agent/harness is used. The fair/real price for profitable use is the pay per use token pricing. These labs play the game of trying to kill competition in the har…

> Basically the prime bet that they made (that one needs extremely expensive hardware to have useful AI) has already failed. I thought the prime bet was that the winning lab who reaches takeoff through recursive self improvement will make a galactic superintelligence. Not saying I believe this but the people running the labs do. Under this scenario if you are a few months behind at the pivotal time you might as well…

only if said galactic superintelligence takes immediate steps to kill all its potential competitors, or hoover up all the world's resources, or some other aggressively zero sum thing. otherwise I don't see what difference it makes down the line of you have the second superintelligence rather than the first.

and that's under the assumption that you can create a superintelligence that will continue to slavishly serve your agenda rather than establishing and following its own goals.

Re: I am worried about Bun

#122

Post by ezekiel68 »

hootz wrote: post #85
ezekiel68 wrote: post #60

Ugh. I hate these "guilt by association" hit pieces. Nothing is wrong and yet we must signal our virtue. Might as well just open our pants and wave our wangers, hoping for a better world

If Disney acquired your favorite IP, wouldn't you get worried?

Yes, but I wouldn't stop watching the originals. And I wouldn't stop watching anything until I saw what came out.

Re: I am worried about Bun

#123

Post by pjmlp »

rtrigoso wrote: post #21

I agree with OP, and understand why to some it feels premature. We live in a vastly different world than before, where people are more conscious of ethical concerns and willing to stand on their ground to avoid repeating past mistakes. It might be premature from a tech standard, but it makes sense from an ethical concern. I don't think misconduct is as easily backtracked as it was before and preemptive measures are n…

Given the complaints about Firefox and Safari not adopting Chrome OS Platform APIs, and shipping Chrome all over the place, I am not sure about people standing on the ground and ethical considerations.

Re: I am worried about Bun

#124

Post by ahepp »

ashdksnndck wrote: post #114
stkdump wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting how quickly people buy the "abuse" line of thinking. We understood (and knew for a long time) that the large AI labs are not monetarily profiting from subscription users that make heavy use of their subscription. That is independent of which agent/harness is used. The fair/real price for profitable use is the pay per use token pricing. These labs play the game of trying to kill competition in the har…

> Basically the prime bet that they made (that one needs extremely expensive hardware to have useful AI) has already failed. I thought the prime bet was that the winning lab who reaches takeoff through recursive self improvement will make a galactic superintelligence. Not saying I believe this but the people running the labs do. Under this scenario if you are a few months behind at the pivotal time you might as well…

One thing I don’t understand about this viewpoint (which I understand isn’t your own): why does one benefit so tremendously from getting there a month before competitors? I’m sure having a month of superintelligence with no competition would be lucrative, but do they think achieving superintelligence first will impede competitors from also achieving it a month later?

Re: I am worried about Bun

#125

Post by pjmlp »

lrvick wrote: post #80

pnpm is even worse. There is no way to bootstrap it without binary blobs making it an easy target supply chain attack waiting to happen that could hide in plain sight indefinitely.

Do you use Gentoo as OS?

Re: I am worried about Bun

#126

Post by aylmao »

pton_xd wrote: post #84
AntonyGarand wrote: post #11

I disagree with the overall premise: Before the acquisition, Bun had to figure out how to monetize at some point. Now, even though their parent company does some shitty practices with their other software (claude code), it's a stretch to assume this will also translate into making Bun worse: Being worried makes sense but I remain optimistic about Bun. Especially given the context of both of these different context: C…

> Now, even though their parent company does some shitty practices with their other software (claude code), it's a stretch to assume this will also translate into making Bun worse: Being worried makes sense but I remain optimistic about Bun. Anthropic acquired Bun for their own benefit, to protect and grow their investment in Claude Code. Not for the benefit the JavaScript community at large. Sounds obvious but I gue…

Bun is not a "product" at Anthropic though, it's a tool for its developers to build products. IMO as long as it remains that way, the incentives for its developers will remain fairly aligned with the incentives of people who use it outside the company.

A good example is React. Facebook's interest is that React be performant (website performance is correlated with time spent on said website), reliable (also correlated to time spent), quick to build on (features ship faster) and popular (helps new recruits hit the ground running). That's fairly well aligned with what developers outside of Facebook want too.

Sure, since Facebook's server is written in Hack it means we'll never get a truly full-stack React, and instead we'll need third parties for the back-end (Next.js, Tanstack Start, etc). But Facebook building react also means it will always be someone's job to make sure this Framework works well in codebases with millions of modules.

This is all independent of any shitty practices with their other software. And this has been for decades at this point.

Re: I am worried about Bun

#127

Post by lstodd »

What is there to worry about? If we believe AI crowd, Bun and entire JS ecosystem is done for. Dead. Nothing to worry about since nothing's left.

If as claimed everyone and his malnourished cellar rat can whip up a SaaS on a whim, then why that SaaS should be built upon chromium+js+http instead of tcp+native ui?

Remember, choice of ui is no longer a constraint. Nothing is a constraint or so they say.

So it follows that all this javascript stuff can at last die.

Re: I am worried about Bun

#128

Post by epolanski »

jazzypants wrote: post #96
shimman wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with the notion, but what is up with the dev community championing influencers that work no real jobs and just sell courses where they reread the docs to you at $500 a pop (this gent, $1k a pop)?

I'm not the biggest fan of the influencer community, but I think that it mostly boils down to many learners preferring video content over written material. I've gotten used to reading documentation now, but I remember it being extremely intimidating when I was first learning. It was nice to have someone break stuff down into simple terms for me. To be fair to Matt Pocock, I know he worked for Vercel and Stately for a…

> but I think that it mostly boils down to many learners preferring video content over written material

99% of the times that's not learning, but productivity porn.

Re: I am worried about Bun

#130

Post by wombat-man »

JamesSwift wrote: post #100
wombat-man wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still getting pretty good code out of it, but I only use it on side projects. Is the issue with their odd limit system?

Im on pay-per-use plans so its not the limits thats the issue directly, although the product development process could lead to them trying to fix limit issue and breaking the product as a whole. The main issue is side effects of effort/thinking it seems. It hallucinates at a much higher rate and skips research in a ton of edge cases even with effort of MAX and disabling adaptive thinking, even on 4.6. Ive said before…

Yeah I have found worse results if I don't leave it on the highest setting. I have gotten by with Pro and a little overage buffer so far. I have found it working pretty well for what I'm using it for but I have really only been using it a couple months now.
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