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Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

economist.com

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Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#41

Post by pembrook »

tardedmeme wrote: post #33
pembrook wrote: post #27

I'm no defender of engagement algorithms and social media (including upvote based algos and this site too)....but this is a ridiculous argument. Social media is not making you behave in ways you don't want. On the contrary, it's giving you EXACTLY what you want. People want to doomscroll social media instead of engage reality, because the real world requires action, effort and social risk...doomscrolling is pure pass…

What is addiction? Can you explain to us how you think about addiction?

Everything is an addiction. Nothing is an addiction. Instead of jumping down a semantic rabbit hole, it might be more useful to look at specifics since obviously its a spectrum.

I can say with certainty that opioids are addictive. I can also say with certainty that doomscrolling is pretty far on the opposite end of that spectrum. I have yet to meet someone who would steal copper pipes off of an abandoned building or sell their body on the street for a few scrolls of tiktok.

But why do you get out of bed at all in the morning? What drives you to exist...are those reward systems in the brain addictive? Why are you sitting at your keyboard right now arguing with a random stranger on the internet?

Are you procrastinating something else you should be doing instead...and is that Hackernews' fault or yours?

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#42

Post by gavinsyancey »

Unai wrote: post #30
andy99 wrote: post #6

I assume this is about dark patterns but can’t confirm as I’m faced with a cookie wall where I can select from “Manage” and “Accept All”.

I got a big "reject all" button just next to the "accept all" one, on mobile.

I wonder if you're in a region that requires that, while the original commenter isn't?

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#43

Post by thewebguyd »

wormy745 wrote: post #31
ngriffiths wrote: post #9

Sure, making instagram as addictive as possible seems bad but I disagree with the framing a bit. Dark patterns get users to do things they don't want, that's why they get super annoyed at the design or the process or the outcome. Addictive apps are a different thing to me. I don't think it's that compelling to say "obviously no one wants to be on Instagram and they're getting manipulated into it." ...yeah they do! Th…

Do you think Instagram/Facebook is a wolf in sheep’s clothing, or a sheep with fangs? By that I mean- is the product addiction, with a shroud of media, or is it media which just happens to be addictive.

They are the wolf. The product is the user's attention, they are ad delivery networks disguised as "social media."

The entire revenue model is based on on engagement and clicks, the product is incentivized to maximize time spent on the service at any cost. Addiction is a core engineering requirement.

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#44

Post by securicat »

It takes five minutes to delete your TikTok, Meta, and Instagram accounts. Setting up forwarding rules from Gmail to Fastmail or another provider takes maybe a little longer, after three months hopefully all your emails are going to the new account after changing them. These companies can’t manipulate you if you don’t use their products.

Edit: I know what network effects are, I was talking about steps individual users can (and should IMO) take. We should be helping our friends, family and neighbors find safe and health alternatives like Signal for comms. Build different networks that are actually social and not doomscrolling.

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#45

Post by [deleted] »

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #36
dd8601fn wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of the TikTok ban that lasted all of twelve seconds. I’ve been using the internet for longer than I care to admit, and I’ve never seen anything like it. It was like 300 million junkies all lost their drug supplier at the same time.

That's literally what it was. These technologies are addicting. Is it as bad or the same as heroin? No. However, they are designed to be addicting.

[deleted]

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#46

Post by californical »

Unai wrote: post #30
andy99 wrote: post #6

I assume this is about dark patterns but can’t confirm as I’m faced with a cookie wall where I can select from “Manage” and “Accept All”.

I got a big "reject all" button just next to the "accept all" one, on mobile.

I just got a big

“We respect your privacy” banner, with a big green ok button and a “manage data collection” tiny print text that had consent for everything automatically approved

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#48

Post by throwaway27448 »

ngriffiths wrote: post #9

Sure, making instagram as addictive as possible seems bad but I disagree with the framing a bit. Dark patterns get users to do things they don't want, that's why they get super annoyed at the design or the process or the outcome. Addictive apps are a different thing to me. I don't think it's that compelling to say "obviously no one wants to be on Instagram and they're getting manipulated into it." ...yeah they do! Th…

> I don't think it's that compelling to say "obviously no one wants to be on Instagram and they're getting manipulated into it." ...yeah they do!

I can't say I know anyone who defends extended social media usage. Do you?

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#49

Post by macintux »

securicat wrote: post #44

It takes five minutes to delete your TikTok, Meta, and Instagram accounts. Setting up forwarding rules from Gmail to Fastmail or another provider takes maybe a little longer, after three months hopefully all your emails are going to the new account after changing them. These companies can’t manipulate you if you don’t use their products. Edit: I know what network effects are, I was talking about steps individual user…

They're still distorting our political and social worlds, whether we're participants or not.

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#50

Post by dakiol »

securicat wrote: post #44

It takes five minutes to delete your TikTok, Meta, and Instagram accounts. Setting up forwarding rules from Gmail to Fastmail or another provider takes maybe a little longer, after three months hopefully all your emails are going to the new account after changing them. These companies can’t manipulate you if you don’t use their products. Edit: I know what network effects are, I was talking about steps individual user…

Same can be said about Claude, Codex, etc. These tools are amazing (technically speaking) but they don't play in our favor (most of us are regular, replaceable employees). Only the usual suspects benefit from AI (executive layer, investors, etc)

Still amazes me how engineers on HN are in awe of AI and LLMs knowing that 90% of us will be affected (we won't be able to bring money to the table) once the higher ups start to normalize even more the usage of AI to reduce headcount. Not everything is about the technical details people, grow up

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