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Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

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Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#81

Post by ravenstine »

the_gastropod wrote: post #62
breezybottom wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds exactly like it's a problem with retirement.

Or maybe it’s a problem of spending all your effort working a job for 40+ years, and having your curiosity atrophy into nothingness. I retired last year in my late 30’s and it’s just such a life upgrade. I study Mandarin, go to the gym, cook fun meals, volunteer at our community garden, volunteer at our food pantry, go to board game nights, brew beer, DIY house maintenance, write some software for myself for fun, etc…

My thoughts exactly. Maybe I'm just wired differently, but if I couldn't work anymore or didn't need to I'd be like "Finally! I can spend as much time as I need to make yeast glow with CRISPR, collect microscopic things, build a chicken coop, learn to fly planes, build a bigger coil gun, actually get proficient at speaking German, go to more pub trivia, build a new Dobsonian telescope, yada yada." And I'm bet someone would say "you're not really gonna do all those things." Well, you're wrong. Those are the sorts of things I've done since I was a kid. I would just have so much more time to do them. There is no way I would retire and have nothing to do.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#82

Post by jandrese »

MisterTea wrote: post #65
b00ty4breakfast wrote: post #35

The problem isn't retirement per se, it is that people don't have things to occupy themselves with. They retire and they vegetate. I worked with a lady that was in her 70s who was deathly afraid of retiring because she didn't have anything to do. That's beyond depressing to me, to be incapable of even conceiving of doing something that doesn't involve going to a job. We have created people that never develop as human…

Every man I know that lived well into their 80's touching or breaking 90 were all active in some way. Once they stopped, they died shortly after. Though to be honest, they didn't stop by choice, usually from an injury or medical condition.

Very common story for a relatively minor injury or disease in an old person to snowball to their death when they lose mobility and independence. You gotta stay active if you want to keep living.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#83

Post by 999900000999 »

Allegedly my great grandfather was building a deck at the age of 90.

This might also be survivorship bias.

I’d like to say people need purpose and challenges. This is probably why rates of depression tend to be much lower in “poor” countries where people have to depend on each other more.

In the west everything is an abstraction. If you would imagine a baker in a small town, if she doesn’t feel like baking that day, the town doesn’t get bread.

Therefore, everyone in the town has an incentive to actually check on her, and get her back on her feet.

In the modern west who cares, surely another bakery will provide.

I believe automation will reduce the need for human labor very very soon.

We can all find meaning in arts, dance and play. If not just the gift of this experience.

Or we can point fingers as no one has work or money

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#84

Post by triceratops »

funimpoded wrote: post #19
dec0dedab0de wrote: post #11

I think employment may set us up for rapid cognitive decline when we finally become unemployed. As in, working 40+ hours a week makes us over-value "vegging out", which sets us up for failure post-employment.

Yeah, questions I have: 1) what’s the effect for countries with humane amounts of paid leave (e.g. France’s 7ish weeks plus ten or so holidays) and working hours; and 2) so how about, you know, the idle rich ? Should we be forcing them to work 40 hours as gas station clerks, for the good of their mental health? Should we forcibly deny them access to their money sometimes so they have to get a job every now and then?…

> so how about, you know, the idle rich?

They get together a few times a week for golf and tennis with their other idle rich friends. Skiing in the winter.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#85

Post by selimthegrim »

the_gastropod wrote: post #74
_blk wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully but strongly disagree. I'll argue you don't have to be a victim and can choose where you live if you plan ahead a little. There's plenty of places where a car is not necessary and even if people think a car's necessary I'm often the only one on a bicycle in many places.. It's doable if you're willing to put in the effort.

As far as I’m aware, every US city where it’s at all common (let’s say 10%+ of households) to live without a car, it’s extremely expensive to live. Are there gems that I’m unaware of?

New Orleans

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#86

Post by littlexsparkee »

the_gastropod wrote: post #74
_blk wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully but strongly disagree. I'll argue you don't have to be a victim and can choose where you live if you plan ahead a little. There's plenty of places where a car is not necessary and even if people think a car's necessary I'm often the only one on a bicycle in many places.. It's doable if you're willing to put in the effort.

As far as I’m aware, every US city where it’s at all common (let’s say 10%+ of households) to live without a car, it’s extremely expensive to live. Are there gems that I’m unaware of?

There are cities in the Midwest with a large carfree share by necessity (income) but as far as by choice/design, Philly and Baltimore appear to hover around 25-30%

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#87

Post by csallen »

b00ty4breakfast wrote: post #35

The problem isn't retirement per se, it is that people don't have things to occupy themselves with. They retire and they vegetate. I worked with a lady that was in her 70s who was deathly afraid of retiring because she didn't have anything to do. That's beyond depressing to me, to be incapable of even conceiving of doing something that doesn't involve going to a job. We have created people that never develop as human…

I think this is a problem in perspective/framing. Or phrasing, if you will.

"Being economic entities in the workforce" could alternatively be phrased, "performing a skilled role or responsibility that's useful for your tribe."

That sounds much less sinister. It's something humans have been doing for millions of years. It feels good, it engages our brains, it's helpful to others, and it's helpful to ourselves. And I can't help but feel the modern "anti-capitalist" trend is unfair in its approach of disparaging it.

Of course, play and socializing are important, too! Life isn't all work and contribution. And there are many ways to work or contribute outside of having a formal job, anyway. So I do agree with you that it's a bit sad that people don't have ideas for how to do either of these things unless it's through their long-term career.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#88

Post by BeetleB »

Bender wrote: post #15

I've been retired for about 5 years and I am just as loony now as I was when employed. HN, my own silly hobby sites, flirting with the gals in town and wildlife keep me active.

> flirting with the gals in town and wildlife keep me active.

Let me write a memo to myself: Try flirting with wildlife to ensure longevity!

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#89

Post by ericmay »

safety1st wrote: post #77
ericmay wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a general comment, I'd like to say that getting out of the house is a hell of a lot easier when you don't have to drive everywhere to participate in daily life. So and so family member sits at home and watches TV all day is a phenomenon caused primarily by our car-centric culture which, for the elderly, is a barrier to staying healthy both mentally and physically.

I'm no fan of car culture but I think to say it's the primary cause of living a sedentary life at home is an overstatement. I deliberately moved somewhere where I could walk to everything I needed including a fantastic central train station, I no longer even own a car, and yet... over the years my habits changed and I now spend a ton of time at home. My motivation to go out has simply declined. There is a relevant co…

Of course our activity levels change and in some cases go down as we age, but I'd like to submit that is a given, and that car-only infrastructure is an additional barrier on top of those natural tendencies.

It's simply much easier to walk to a coffee shop, or park, or wherever for those who have maintained their mobility (probably in part by living in a walking-centric environment) than it is to hop in a car, sit in traffic, for small things. It's less of a barrier.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#90

Post by tardedmeme »

csallen wrote: post #87
b00ty4breakfast wrote: post #35

The problem isn't retirement per se, it is that people don't have things to occupy themselves with. They retire and they vegetate. I worked with a lady that was in her 70s who was deathly afraid of retiring because she didn't have anything to do. That's beyond depressing to me, to be incapable of even conceiving of doing something that doesn't involve going to a job. We have created people that never develop as human…

I think this is a problem in perspective/framing. Or phrasing, if you will. "Being economic entities in the workforce" could alternatively be phrased, "performing a skilled role or responsibility that's useful for your tribe." That sounds much less sinister. It's something humans have been doing for millions of years. It feels good, it engages our brains, it's helpful to others, and it's helpful to ourselves. And I c…

They were specifically talking about a commercial labor-for-money transaction though. Not just any useful work.
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