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Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

nber.org

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Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#31

Post by keybored »

> Nevertheless, our group-average findings, if replicated by others, would hold clear policy implications. Federal efforts to promote work at pre-retirement ages would not only reduce reliance on SSDI and enhance retirement security, but would also promote healthy aging through delaying cognitive decline.

Fuck you.

Christopher Lasch wrote that our “culture of narcissism” detests aging. Unsurprisingly we, the narcissists, are horrified when we ourselves become old. Because there is hardly anything left for us.

You can subtract pure biology, i.e. normal bodily degradation. But you can also subtract respect, esteem, wisdom (because who cares what grandpa has to say?), family (see care homes), and socializing.[1] You’re not an “asset” (to use familiar language[2]) to anyone. Just a burden.

What becomes the solution to any of that? No, no. We don’t need solutions to old people problems. We need solutions to them being burdens.

So how to make them less of a drag on our collective selves: encourage them to work at their shitty jobs for longer.

[1] See the old man who meets you again after six months and talks way too much about what he’s up to. Does he have any other outlets?

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47873477

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#32

Post by AnimalMuppet »

appreciatorBus wrote: post #5
goda90 wrote: post #3

I believe there have been studies into how social life impacts longevity, and probably cognitive decline as well. For some people, like my great-grandmother who kept working well into her 80s by choice, jobs can be a big social outlet. For others a job can be very socially isolating. Those factors probably matter a lot. Side note: I'm sure we'll see research into these areas used to propose delaying retirement age mo…

Your side note implies this would be a bad or nefarious thing? What if it's actually a good decision for both individuals and the public at large?

"Good for both individuals and the public at large" is one thing. "We found a club to beat you into doing what we want you to" looks very similar, but is quite different in how it feels and how it works out.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#33

Post by seattle_spring »

Bender wrote: post #15

I've been retired for about 5 years and I am just as loony now as I was when employed. HN, my own silly hobby sites, flirting with the gals in town and wildlife keep me active.

> I am just as loony now as I was when employed ... flirting with the gals in town and wildlife

Flirting with the wildlife certainly does fall into the "loony" bucket in my book. Make sure to stay safe!

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#34

Post by stringfood »

cableshaft wrote: post #6
goda90 wrote: post #3

I believe there have been studies into how social life impacts longevity, and probably cognitive decline as well. For some people, like my great-grandmother who kept working well into her 80s by choice, jobs can be a big social outlet. For others a job can be very socially isolating. Those factors probably matter a lot. Side note: I'm sure we'll see research into these areas used to propose delaying retirement age mo…

Yeah I work from home. Except for 1-2 short zoom calls a day or talking with my wife, who also works from home, I can go pretty much the whole week without talking to anyone. I try to make sure I go out with friends at least once on the weekends, though, to sort of make up for it. But I do wonder if that's going to be a bad thing for me later in my life. But I also play a lot of board games, including somewhat compli…

Having done both, playing complex board games and card games is not nearly as complicated and engaging for the mind as a full time customer facing job, and not nearly as fulfilling. You get to see smiles and frowns and everything in between in a job and there is no board game that can match the complexity and novelty of random humans asking you to solve their problems.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#35

Post by b00ty4breakfast »

The problem isn't retirement per se, it is that people don't have things to occupy themselves with. They retire and they vegetate. I worked with a lady that was in her 70s who was deathly afraid of retiring because she didn't have anything to do. That's beyond depressing to me, to be incapable of even conceiving of doing something that doesn't involve going to a job.

We have created people that never develop as human beings outside the context of their being economic entities in the workforce and that's not something to celebrate.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#36

Post by AnimalMuppet »

gruez wrote: post #13
LeCompteSftware wrote: post #4

It's 48 pages and I haven't read it fully, but it seems almost childlike that the paper doesn't address the obvious confounding variable: "Does Unemployment Make It More Likely for Late Middle-Aged People, Particularly Men, To Drink Alcohol? Evidence From We Obviously Should Have Considered This In The Paper, Perhaps We Are Too Sheltered" To be clear I am not being pedantic. The paper explicitly endorses the policy o…

>but it seems almost childlike that the paper doesn't address the obvious confounding variable: I thought that's the reason why they used "Evidence from Labor Market Shocks"? The idea is that when "Labor Market Shocks" (ie. mass layoffs) happen, the people who lose their jobs are somewhat random, so there isn't the confounding variable of low performers/sick people.

I'm not sure that completely addresses the GP's point, because "mass layoffs" are still somewhat selective. You're more likely to lay off the people that you think aren't worth their pay, which would include those who are already suffering cognitive decline, those who are drinking enough that it's affecting their job performance, and so on.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#37

Post by Bender »

seattle_spring wrote: post #33
Bender wrote: post #15

I've been retired for about 5 years and I am just as loony now as I was when employed. HN, my own silly hobby sites, flirting with the gals in town and wildlife keep me active.

> I am just as loony now as I was when employed ... flirting with the gals in town and wildlife Flirting with the wildlife certainly does fall into the "loony" bucket in my book. Make sure to stay safe!

[dead]

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#38

Post by _blk »

ericmay wrote: post #29
nate wrote: post #14

We probably all have anecdotal evidence here, but my father is a perfect example of being no longer employed and a ton of stuff declining. Yes, cognitively, but a lot of health. We're talking not just your "career". He was a commercial real estate agent. But in his 80s he was working at Menards as a greeter and stocker. And it kept him busy. Getting out of the house. Figuring things out. Meeting and talking to people…

As a general comment, I'd like to say that getting out of the house is a hell of a lot easier when you don't have to drive everywhere to participate in daily life. So and so family member sits at home and watches TV all day is a phenomenon caused primarily by our car-centric culture which, for the elderly, is a barrier to staying healthy both mentally and physically.

Respectfully but strongly disagree. I'll argue you don't have to be a victim and can choose where you live if you plan ahead a little.

There's plenty of places where a car is not necessary and even if people think a car's necessary I'm often the only one on a bicycle in many places.. It's doable if you're willing to put in the effort.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#39

Post by moneycantbuy »

Does slavery slow cognitive decline? Capitalist propaganda says being a wagie is good for us. That being said people are so indoctrinated that they have no idea what to do without an employer. pretty fucked up society and culture we now find ourselves in.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#40

Post by gcheong »

I would hypothesize that this is strongly correlated to where a person's sense of purpose comes from. If someone gets most of their sense of purpose from their job then you would expect to see a decline once they leave their job if they can't replace it with something else. For those whose sense of purpose is derived mainly outside of work and can continue to derive that sense of purpose in retirement, I would expect less of a decline in retirement other than normal aging.
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