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PengPod: True Linux Tablets and MiniPCs

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Re: PengPod: True Linux Tablets and MiniPCs

#21

Post by vidarh »

subsystem wrote: post #19
vidarh wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, their pictures are of existing Allwinner based Android products that are available for purchase now from any number of sources, and that there are plenty of documentation on getting Linux running for. So making a good Linux distribution seems to be what this project is for. It's very unclear what they're actually offering - it seems that any donations will go towards work on a very limited set of missi…

Seems fairly close to a scam to me. "By using crowd funding to consolidate the orders we will be able to achieve the prices listed in the rewards and upgrades to the hardware become possible." Then why is the PengStick/Mini MK802 twice the price of Amazon?

If they're actually planning on specific improvements of the Linux distro, I might be willing to pay extra for it... But, yeah, it does seem like they're at the very least not doing anything at all to prevent confusion over what this is about.

Re: PengPod: True Linux Tablets and MiniPCs

#22

Post by sciurus »

CJefferson wrote: post #2

I don't want this to just sound like "this is a terrible idea", but I'm interested -- why not just make a good linux distribution for something like the Nexus 10? I already want to get one of those, and would be happy to dual-boot traditional linux, or even just have access to true linux under the android hub. Unless there is some serious restriction, it seems easier to get software right, than hardware + software.

Essentially, that's what this campaign is- they're looking for funding to make a good linux distribution for Allwinner A10 systems. The hardware already exists, and it already runs Linux. For example, their PengStick seems to just be the MK802 II, which you can pick up for $50 to $60. I have one of those running Xubuntu. I'm not sure what the tablets are, but you can find candidates at sellers like http://www.w2comp.com/catalog.asp?catid=75148

Getting linux running on these devices requires a lot of expertise on your own part, or trawling forums for builds other have created. What they're proposing sounds like a real improvement-

"While we have a good, running Linux system now for all the devices, there are still some rough edges. We intend to fix up the tablet related features, host a central repository of A10 specific packages and create images and guides to make these devices even better. All these efforts will take time and we plan to use the proceeds from the crowd funding to fund the remainder of the software work and maintenance."

Re: PengPod: True Linux Tablets and MiniPCs

#23

Post by vidarh »

sciurus wrote: post #22
CJefferson wrote: post #2

I don't want this to just sound like "this is a terrible idea", but I'm interested -- why not just make a good linux distribution for something like the Nexus 10? I already want to get one of those, and would be happy to dual-boot traditional linux, or even just have access to true linux under the android hub. Unless there is some serious restriction, it seems easier to get software right, than hardware + software.

Essentially, that's what this campaign is- they're looking for funding to make a good linux distribution for Allwinner A10 systems. The hardware already exists, and it already runs Linux. For example, their PengStick seems to just be the MK802 II, which you can pick up for $50 to $60. I have one of those running Xubuntu. I'm not sure what the tablets are, but you can find candidates at sellers like http://www.w2comp.…

There are already resellers that provide Linux images and substantial support. See e.g. www.miniand.com

In terms of "central repository of A10 specific images", that might be useful, but there's already a wide range of community sites collating information on Linux on A10, without trying to extract cash for it..

The tablets they show are almost certainly LY-F1 - it's sold under dozens of brand names and in a few different configurations and a few different cases, but the specs match perfectly and at least one of the pics are of the case that's most commonly used with the A10 version of the LY-F1.

But most all of the A10 based boards are practically identical - I'm assuming most are variations over some prototype provided by Allwinner given how similar they are.

Re: PengPod: True Linux Tablets and MiniPCs

#24

Post by vidarh »

ansible wrote: post #4
CJefferson wrote: post #2

I don't want this to just sound like "this is a terrible idea", but I'm interested -- why not just make a good linux distribution for something like the Nexus 10? I already want to get one of those, and would be happy to dual-boot traditional linux, or even just have access to true linux under the android hub. Unless there is some serious restriction, it seems easier to get software right, than hardware + software.

The Nexus 10 also has the fewest binary blobs of any recent Android device. Also, if you want an Allwinner based tablet there are/will be many available. The main work would be to find one where you can get the schematics, and also spec sheets for all the peripherals. Some companies might be open to releasing that stuff if you pay them.

Spec wise, the problem is the A10 SoC itself, not the board - the boards for most of the A10 based devices are practically identical and very simple. It's particularly the Mali400 GPU that's posing a problem, and there the challenge in terms of specs might very well be ARM themselves.

That said, there's work ongoing to reverse engineer it (Linux works on it, but without hardware acceleration)

Re: PengPod: True Linux Tablets and MiniPCs

#25

Post by vidarh »

adventureloop wrote: post #15

This is a strange reveral of the gnu/linux debate. The linux kernel is not the important component, the windowing system is. I dont want to run X applications on a tablet, I have tried that before with the n700. I want a fully finger friendly user interface, the one that comes with android works pretty well. I can understand the appeal of a community owned FOSS user interface, but why attach the linux tag as a sellin…

Because some people would like to be able to attach a keyboard and use it as a makeshift netbook now and again.

And because there's a lot of work ongoing to make X apps "finger friendly". E.g. Ubuntu 13.04 has making Ubuntu work better on tablets as a major goal.

And these devices are not just tablets. The MiniPC (which is just a MK802 or MK803) has HDMI out and full HD.

Re: PengPod: True Linux Tablets and MiniPCs

#27

Post by drachensun »

vidarh wrote: post #17
CJefferson wrote: post #2

I don't want this to just sound like "this is a terrible idea", but I'm interested -- why not just make a good linux distribution for something like the Nexus 10? I already want to get one of those, and would be happy to dual-boot traditional linux, or even just have access to true linux under the android hub. Unless there is some serious restriction, it seems easier to get software right, than hardware + software.

Interestingly, their pictures are of existing Allwinner based Android products that are available for purchase now from any number of sources, and that there are plenty of documentation on getting Linux running for. So making a good Linux distribution seems to be what this project is for. It's very unclear what they're actually offering - it seems that any donations will go towards work on a very limited set of missi…

I'm sorry if you find anything misleading. We try to be as accurate as possible without making the page too dry for non-technical folks. For example we list the features of the Allwinner processor as our work will be portable to many devices beyond what we sell. This lead to confusion were people were saying "I wont buy it, it has a resistive touch screen". The devices have capacitive touch screens and the chip has a built in resistive controller, but we are not using it. Our attempt to show the technical merits of the A10 confused many and so we must be careful how in depth we go. I'm happy to accept feedback about points we need to clarify.

I think this most important work will be doing is to setup and maintain repositories of available packages for the A10 and tablet based improvements. Also we also providing device preloaded and maintaining images for people who don't have time, or don't yet have the skills but would like to run GNU/Linux on their device.

I realize you can buy these devices at cut rates directly from China. Since we have to flash and test these in the USA, we have to pay livable wages to our staff. I realize its not great for the bottom line. It allows us to ship with the latest work we have completed without delaying the production run. This will help to avoid running into Chinese new year and a long production delay.

Re: PengPod: True Linux Tablets and MiniPCs

#28

Post by drachensun »

vidarh wrote: post #21
subsystem wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems fairly close to a scam to me. "By using crowd funding to consolidate the orders we will be able to achieve the prices listed in the rewards and upgrades to the hardware become possible." Then why is the PengStick/Mini MK802 twice the price of Amazon?

If they're actually planning on specific improvements of the Linux distro, I might be willing to pay extra for it... But, yeah, it does seem like they're at the very least not doing anything at all to prevent confusion over what this is about.

Things move fast in China, when we started planning this project the cost was based on a bulk order. In the 6 weeks or so since the retail prices have come much closer the wholesale price. This is typical of Chinese goods once they are available long enough.

So the order quantity is not as important now but we still need the bulk to provide enough funds for the software work.

Re: PengPod: True Linux Tablets and MiniPCs

#29

Post by drachensun »

vidarh wrote: post #23
sciurus wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Essentially, that's what this campaign is- they're looking for funding to make a good linux distribution for Allwinner A10 systems. The hardware already exists, and it already runs Linux. For example, their PengStick seems to just be the MK802 II, which you can pick up for $50 to $60. I have one of those running Xubuntu. I'm not sure what the tablets are, but you can find candidates at sellers like http://www.w2comp.…

There are already resellers that provide Linux images and substantial support. See e.g. www.miniand.com In terms of "central repository of A10 specific images", that might be useful, but there's already a wide range of community sites collating information on Linux on A10, without trying to extract cash for it.. The tablets they show are almost certainly LY-F1 - it's sold under dozens of brand names and in a few diff…

I don't really want to say anything bad about Miniand, I'm a fan of their work and like what they have going, however... Our prices actually compare very well with Miniand once you include shipping. Also the images officially provided by miniand haven't been updated in a while, where as we plan to keep things more up to date.
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