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Windows quality update: Progress we've made since March

blogs.windows.com

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Re: Windows quality update: Progress we've made since March

#321

Post by gmueckl »

ninjagoo wrote: post #283
internet2000 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They went all in on pretending to care about quality since the MacBook Neo. The numbers they're seeing must be terrifying.

> They went all in on pretending to care about quality since the MacBook Neo. The numbers they're seeing must be terrifying. Yeah. Worldwide Neo sales at 5 million units + production raise to 10 million? [1] Even if only 50% of those are US consumers, add to that the number of folks switching over to linux [4]; and suddenly that's not small potatoes, considering there are only about 162 million working folks in the U…

Your first point seems flawed: Apple production numbers are to supply markets worldwide. All the other numbers focus on the US only. That alone makes the threat at the OS level evaporate. Lenovo reportedly sells around 50 million units per year, Dell is at 25 million. 5 to 10 million units is tiny.

Re: Windows quality update: Progress we've made since March

#322

Post by gchamonlive »

fasterik wrote: post #315
gchamonlive wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are caused by moral busy bodies who think they know better. If you know better just hack it your way. Linux is an open platform. Nothing prevents you from gutting Ubuntu and making it your own. You can't say the same for Windows though. So I guess is not a matter of monopoly of idiocy, but whether you can do something about idiot decisions when they are made. This is why an open platform will always win. It's…

>If you know better just hack it your way. While this might be technically true, I also think it's a lazy argument that ignores practical reality. It's basically a way to avoid any kind of accountability or self-reflection on the part of developers. "Users aren't happy? If they don't want to make the change themselves, they can fuck off." This is a toxic attitude which I see a lot in discussions of free software. In…

Can you tell me an instance where users got locked into a dying ecosystem in Linux?

What I can tell you is that CentOS, which was used extensively in servers, died and you didn't really see much issue, at least not as much as compared to the pain and suffering users are having to go through now that Windows is the dying place.

What's lazy is the repetition of this realist fallacy of the technical lockin, when in fact what you really have is what you see, an open platform you can very well just leave for another when you disagree with the current vendor.

Dislike Ubuntu and you can very well migrate. That's the practical reality.

Re: Windows quality update: Progress we've made since March

#323

Post by ninjagoo »

cineticdaffodil wrote: post #53
PeterStuer wrote: post #40

What people realy want: as little OS as possible to let them run just the things on their computer they want to run. What Microsoft wants: Windows as their straightjacket into the Microsoft services as that is where the revenue is. Why Windows got this bad: incentives and coercion placed on the teams to show uptake on the services no matter what leading to perversion in tactics and complete alienation of the user bas…

Linux would need to be willing to safe the work millions of people put into memorizing excel, word and windows workflows.

> Linux would need to be willing to safe the work millions of people put into memorizing excel, word and windows workflows.

It's a fair point. Organizational and personal inertia is a real thing.

Maybe think of it as going through a divorce and entering a new relationship. You do it mostly because you want to, and sometimes you do it because you have to.

OS as a digital spouse analogy? too far-fetched? think of how much time you spend with it in a day :-)

Re: Windows quality update: Progress we've made since March

#324

Post by kelvinjps10 »

noosphr wrote: post #242
heresie-dabord wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can use Linux but I have decades of Windows muscle memory and I do a bunch of DirectX programming. I see a likely inversion of motives here: you earn your living coding or otherwise are deeply vested in Windows, so you are committed for survival to Windows and to fixing the absurd account problem that MSFT has inflicted on you. The expression "muscle memory" here just means the cognitive load of working with a te…

My Ubuntu servers have been in an undefined state since canonical botched a regular upgrade to 26.04 LTS due to the ongoing DDOS. Their status page says everything works. A simple ping tells me nothing works. Let's not pretend Microsoft has a monopoly on idiocy in the software world. All major Linux distros are hell bent on repeating the mistakes of Windows. Especially since the people in control of the stack (minus…

You can download from a different mirror in linux and open source you always have another option

Re: Windows quality update: Progress we've made since March

#325

Post by c0n5pir4cy »

999900000999 wrote: post #47

>We’ve also made changes to the Power menu so you’ll always see the standard Restart and Shut down options without having to install a pending update first. You decide when updates happen, not the other way around. Multiple times I've wanted to shutdown my laptop so I can go home and Windows says no, sit here for 5 minutes. I don't trust sleep mode to not keep running and overheat, so I wait. Macbooks with 1TB drives…

> I don't trust sleep mode to not keep running and overheat, so I wait.

People have been expressing their dissatisfaction at Windows Updates strategy for so long - Modern Standby was so badly implemented it basically cooked laptops in bags and while leaving users wondering what was happening. I had to reflow a laptop because of it.

> Macbooks with 1TB drives are getting cheaper every day.

Also high-speed external storage is very accessible now - so having large built in storage for your DAW isn't really necessary. The 1 USB 3 port on the MacBook Neo is more than fast enough for this.

> Music production on Linux isn't really practical.

I would somewhat disagree with this. Linux has much better low-latency, multi application audio support than Windows & Mac now (via JACK) and some pretty incredible native DAWs like Bitwig - so the moat certainly isn't as large as it used to be. I would say it's practical if your workflow doesn't require features of Mac/Windows or tools specific to those platforms.

As impractical as it would be for normal users - even Ableton works pretty well under WINE.

> Competition is great. But this is about the Mac Neo( and left over M4 Macs crashing in price ). Desktop Linux is still a challenge.

I think between this and they've maybe had a bit of a scare from Valve and SteamOS - because that's historically been one of their other big moats. They kicked off a similar initiative to make Windows nicer for gamers back in December.

I agree that desktop Linux is still a challenge - it's better than it used to be and you can get away without a terminal now if you're just doing basic Internet/Office tasks. In a lot of places the UX can get pretty gnarly.

Re: Windows quality update: Progress we've made since March

#326

Post by p_ing »

kasabali wrote: post #287
p_ing wrote: post #224

People complain about telemetry but that’s how you get improved features. https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/the-new-run-dialo...

Yet somehow PEAK Windows versions ( whether it was 2000, XP or 7 depending on person) all predates introduction of forced or opt-out telemetry.

Peak in what way?

Windows 2000 had sequential service startup. It took /ages/ to boot. The boot screen was pretty, though.

XP was a security nightmare and out the gate was BSOD city, much of that thanks to 3rd party drivers, but the OS had fundamental kernel bugs, too.

7 was okay, but it isn't something you'd want to go back to with modern hardware. It lacks many features we find essential. TRIM being a big one. I'd argue that the Windows 7 iconography wasn't very nice.

I'm more of a fan of NT4 for it's utilitarian look, though service management was no where near as nice as what the MMC brought.

From a stability perspective, it really wasn't until Windows 8/10 where we got to the "PEAK" Windows versions, where stability was not an issue at the OS level with Microsoft-shipped code, but rather at a driver or hardware level. No longer were we seeing some fundamental kernel bug halting the system, instead it shifted over to garbage 3rd party drivers (largely fixed thanks to Windows' unique ability to restart the graphical subsystem/removal of kernel mode print drivers) or failing hardware. You won't find that level of stability in Windows 2000, Windows XP, or Windows 7.

Re: Windows quality update: Progress we've made since March

#327

Post by p_ing »

matthewfcarlson wrote: post #230
qingcharles wrote: post #24

They talk about improving memory footprint and performance, but simply removing (or making optional) the massive amount of cruft and telemetry in a default Windows 11 install would go miles. Installing Tiny11 and then running a debloat over its corpse results in a much faster and less memory hungry default clean install.

Cruft can be removed yes but the telemetry is literally how they measure quality. Their metrics of whether it’s good or not is the status of telemetry on a given device set and figuring out root cause. So they can’t easily roll back the telemetry without a massive rethink in their quality strategy

Along with this, which is how nearly every major piece of software works today, removing telemetry likely wouldn't have a measurable impact on performance or memory usage. Those aren't heavy subsystems.
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